New (2019) Fender Tonemaster Deluxe and Tonemaster Twin

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by RolandKorg, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. guitarman3001

    guitarman3001 Member

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    The Cyber Twin was a hybrid of tube, analog, and digital.

    Tubes in the preamp, solid state power section, digital amp modeling.
     
  2. 83stratman

    83stratman Supporting Member

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    I don't believe that is correct. I though the digital part was the re configuring of the analog circuit, and of course the FX.

     
  3. jamester

    jamester Silver Supporting Member

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    Regardless, my overall point about the regular cycle of claims from manufacturers of "just as good as tubes" still stands.

    But a quick search produced this SW page for the Cyber Twin SE, listing "250 DSP amplifier models":
    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CyberTwin--fender-cyber-twin-se
     
  4. guitarman3001

    guitarman3001 Member

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    Here's from Sweetwater's site -

    Fender Cyber-Twin SE at a Glance:
    • 130-watt (2 x 65 watts) stereo amp
    • 2 x 12" Celestion G12 T-100 speakers
    • 250 DSP amplifier design presets, with 100 rewritable user locations
    • 42 individual effects selections with adjustable parameters
    • Effects send with stereo returns, plus digital output, balanced line outs and headphone jack
    • Footswitch control plus MIDI In/Out/Thru for automated settings changes
    • Motorized knobs for instant verification of settings

    From Musician's Friend -

    The Fender Cyber Twin SE Amp is Fender's best guitar amp. A 2x12 combo with tube preamp, reconfigurable analog and digital circuitry, motorized knobs, and a 2x65W power amp. Includes two footswitches, wheels, and a cover. With new cosmetics, it does everything the original model did with new effects and effect combinations, models, timbre filters, and much more.


    Either way, the poster who brought up Greg Koch is correct in that for decades, we've been hearing amp companies (and their paid endorsees or employees) claim that they've finally found the holy grail - tube tone and feel from a non-tube amp, whether it's digital, solid state, whatever... And even from the companies who have made the claim, a year later they come out with another amp and claim that this one finally did it (obviously, acknowledging that their previous claim of finding the holy grail was slightly....inaccurate...).... fast forward to 30 years later and it's clear that if they have to keep making the "finally, THIS one is really really it!!!", all of the previous claims were just marketing hype and they didn't really do it. They basically undermine their own claims by having a track record of earlier claims that proved to be untrue.

    That's why people's reaction every time the claim is made again range from skeptical to cynical, to sometimes outright hostile. It's not because we don't want it to be true, it's because we've experienced decades of inaccurate claims.

    An interesting tangential discussion is whether those non-tube amps may or may not actually sound and feel better than the tube amps. The blind Stradivarius tests that have been done are pretty interesting. The most highly trained violinists, in blind tests, couldn't tell a Stradivarius from a modern violin, and in many cases actually preferred the modern ones to the Stradivarius.

    Just goes to show that a lot of what we think we hear may be psychological. Although it's not precisely applicable to the digital/tube amp debate because a Stradivarius and a modern violin are essentially the same technology, not a comparison of a real violin and a synthetic violin.

    But still interesting.
     
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  5. ChristianDK

    ChristianDK Member

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    New video from Sweetwater!

     
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  6. misa

    misa Silver Supporting Member

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    Probably best answered by @stilwel :

    Can the power amp handle a mismatched higher load?
    I imagine the answer is yes, but would like confirmation. I'd predict a reduction in available watts, but would the sound change significantly from what was designed (coming out of the amp, not necessarily accounting for speakers/cab)? I'd be specifically interested in 8 Ohm and 16 Ohm speaker loads.

    Also, are the speakers wired directly from the board or is there a 1/4" jack on the underside of the chassis?
     
  7. Figaro

    Figaro Supporting Member

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    I’m curious... How does the overdrive sound when you turn the Channel Volume up while turning the Master Volume lower? Can you get good overdrive sounds by doing this with no pedals?

    I think most players have never been to do this with tube TR’s because of their volume.
     
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  8. Back-up

    Back-up Member

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    the amp does not have a master volume, just a normal channel and vibrato channel and 1 volume knob per channel. If your asking about the power scaling and cranking the volume, yes it sounds really good with no pedals. I currently have been running the power at 1 watt and 5 watts, Vibrato channel at about 6-7. No pedals needed for the Les Paul, but the Strat needs a bit of help of a drive pedal is you want more dirt at 5-7 unless your really digging in.

    Best sound so far was 12 watts, volume at 7, amp on tilt back and I was standing about 5 feet away and whipped into the intro of Stones Brown sugar. That put a smile on my face and the neighbors. LOL

    I hope to find a GC around local that has a Tube Twin in Stock and do my own test. A year ago if someone asked if i would ever own a twin I would have laughed due to the weight and 85 watts of overkill.
    I plan on getting a few dirt pedals ( with the DSL40cr and Katana none were really needed over the past couple years and sold OD pedals).
     
  9. Figaro

    Figaro Supporting Member

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    Sorry, I meant the Output Power control. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  10. Aslan

    Aslan Silver Supporting Member

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    The Tone Master Twin had better sound amazing since you can buy a Katana 100 2x12 for 1/2 the price & it only weighs 10 lbs more! Also, has built in 50+ effects.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  11. Axe-Man

    Axe-Man Member

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    4 times the DSP power of a Mustang...

    So 2000 MIPS (Mustang DSP is 250 MIPS per core x 2 cores)?

    A Helix and AX8 Dual SHARC DSP is > 6000 MIPS.

    So not too shabby.

    For reference, I think the Sweetwater vid sounds really good and the convolution verb seems great (I think they need to market that in a stand alone pedal).
     
  12. stilwel

    stilwel Member

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    The amps use 8ohm Jensen speakers that are wired directly to the board.
    Going up to 16 ohms would definitely reduce max output power, but not sure why you would do that since 8 ohm speakers are readily available.
     
  13. Figaro

    Figaro Supporting Member

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    How many MIPS does it take to = one tube?
     
  14. Aslan

    Aslan Silver Supporting Member

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    If these amps do sound just like the originals then I hope they make a Tweed Bassman or Tweed Deluxe models.
     
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  15. Figaro

    Figaro Supporting Member

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    I wish it had at least one speaker jack. :(
     
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  16. Back-up

    Back-up Member

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    Well so far, the clean and overdrive of the TTM is much better than my Katana 1x12 100 as a stand alone. I'm at the point were i don't need 50 built in effects. But the 2 that are similar (reverb and VibraTo) no comparison.
    Its pricey for a made in China, SS amp...but so far...its a damn good amp from my noodling around.
    If i was to do a gig with my buds and the set listed consisted of Slipknot, Slayer, ACDC, Bob Dylan and Waylon Jennings and had no pedals... I would probably take the Katana. LOL.
     
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  17. misa

    misa Silver Supporting Member

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    Thanks for the info. I was thinking of a single 8 ohm speaker as the most likely scenario for me (although I also have some 2-12 cabs wired up to 16 ohm).

    Probably a niche or very small user scenario, but the idea of putting the amp in a head cab and paring it with a single 15”, 8 ohm JBL may be appealing for some of the pedal steel guys like me.

    That said, should I be expecting about half the watts at 8 ohm versus running at 4 ohm? Any testing of the sound done on Fender’s part at different loads? I must say it is a little disheartening to hear the speakers are directly wired.
     
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  18. Axe-Man

    Axe-Man Member

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    I guess it’s akin to asking how many modellers it takes to change a vacuum tube. :p

     
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  19. Ryno1331

    Ryno1331 Supporting Member

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    Have you looked at who this is marketed at? Do you realize it is meant to get one great sound and not 100 ok ones?
     
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  20. breogan

    breogan Member

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    And also, Katanas are amazing for the price, but not really “amazing” in absolute terms. There is something in the attack and feeling that is missing.
     
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