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New (2019) Fender Tonemaster Deluxe and Tonemaster Twin

bluescube

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,616
Wasn't Steve Winwood using Cyber Twins with Eric Clapton on his Crossroads show a few years ago...
 

COYS

Member
Messages
5,315
Ok, this might be inconclusive, but here’s what I saw inside:



Close up photos going from left to right of the photo above:













So I am guessing that what you gents are interested in is all on that main board in the center which is obscured by the large heat sink. I was not brave enough to go any further, but perhaps these are of some value.
 

Axe-Man

Member
Messages
6,139
B&O Ice Power. Quality Class D power amp (Kemper uses them).

Production price is definitely ramping up considering neo speaker, legit DR aesthetics, pine finger joined cab, Ice Power power amp (SD charges a lot for their IP SD170 as does Kemper if you look at the price for the powered vs unpowered Kemper) plus all the R&D, decent processor etc.

Could that be a 4 core CPU package hiding in there rather than a DSP?
 
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Mark Al

Member
Messages
905
Yeah, it seems both the processor and the ram are under the heat sink...

Judging from the pictures, it looks like the internal build quality is really good.

On the main board, ram is on the left under the heat sink, on the right there seems to be an empty socket... That’s interesting...
 

skinvoyager

Member
Messages
1,029
Not a techie…just here for the tone talk…

While I love Andy's videos, I think it's a little pointless to compare the DRRI and the DRTM using the same settings. When I tried the two amps side-by-side (and I did so for a couple days), I found myself liking one over the other, but then I would match the tone by adjusting the controls, and then I would change my mind about which sounded better. This went on for some time until I realized the amps can sound nearly identical, but you have to move the knobs. The DRRI I compared the DRTM at Guitar Center was actually less bright; the DRRI I borrowed from my buddy for a couple days was more bright.

The Tonemasters weren't even on my radar when I went shopping for a Deluxe or Deluxe-style amp. But as the owner of a Carol Ann Tucana 3 (my favorite amp ever) and an Axe FX 3 (the best modeler ever, IMO), the Tonemaster DR sounded so damn good and so close to the real thing it was a wash. But add the attenuator, the weight and the direct out, for me, it's not even a contest. And I love only having two options of IRs. I've wasted so much time auditioning IRs with the Fractal only to get marginal improvements. The Tonemasters are a really smart solution. When I first read about them, I thought they were kind of a stupid idea. Now I own one and I totally get it.
 
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Elantric

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
9,874
Well - this is NOT a respun Mustang GT ;)







PCB LEFT= ICE POWER 200AS1 Amplifier Module
https://www.audioxpress.com/news/ic...tar-amplifiers-bass-amplifiers-and-subwoofers


https://icepower.dk/products/amplif...telligent-audio-amplifier-power/#200as1-popup
Applications




    • Bass amplifiers
    • Guitar amplifiers
    • Subwoofers
    • Active 2-way hifi speakers and studio monitors
Key Performance Parameters

Output Power per channel 1 % THD+N, 20 Hz – 20 kHz 200 W (4 Ω)
100 W (8 Ω)
Output Power per channel 10 % THD+N, 20 Hz – 20 kHz 255 W (4 Ω)
Minimum load impedance 3 Ω
Maximum amplifier efficiency –
Maximum total amp+psu efficiency 78 %
Supply voltage input 85-264 VAC
Peak output current 24 A
Dynamic range 109 dB
Amplifier maximum output peak voltage per channel 41 V
Output referenced idle noise (A-weighted) 92 µV
THD+N 1 W/1 kHz 0.006 %



PCB CENTER = ARM Quad Core RISC Processor board - (see the SDCARD slot on the right for R&D Firmware load.)
-
tough to know more details as most bits are under that giant heat sink - but it looks like a typical four Core ARM Cortex-A53 Module
perhaps similar to this

this looks like a domestic designed proprietary PCB



PCB RIGHT = Analog Input A/D / D/A - using a
Cirrus Logic C42435 (108 dB, 192 kHz 4-In, 8-Out TDM CODEC)
https://statics.cirrus.com/pubs/proDatasheet/CS42435_F5.pdf

Good choice - this allows Fender to use same CODEC across a wide array of future product lines - and can accommodate FX Loops, and possible separate EQ for XLR Out, vs the analog feed to the IcePower AMp Board

Two of the 4 available A/D's are employed as a Stacked design to increase dynamic range for the DSP (as employed by Fractal)
* Stacked a/d converters. To make a significant improvement in dynamic range, a stacked a/d converter architecture can be used. In this approach, the signal is split into multiple paths, each with a different gain before input to the a/d converter. If, for example, three a/d converters are used, they would capture large, medium and small signals respectively and the final output would be selected from the most appropriate a/d converter.
And employs JRC NJM2746 rail to rail Dual OpAmps with a low noise of 10nV/√Hz
https://www.njr.com/semicon/products/NJM2746.html

On the Far Right are TI OPAxxxx ( cant read it ) - possibly low noise quad op amps - or Logic to support the SuperChamp XD style FootSwitch
http://www.ti.com/amplifier-circuit/op-amps/products.html&sort=p480;desc

and note the "No Stuff" parts on the left - J703, etc - appears to be an aborted headphone Output jack using a PCB Footprint that can accept Cliff/Rean style switching TRS Jack from mutliple 2nd sources (Neutrik , Shogyo, etc)
http://shogyo.com/product-category/...dio_standard=6-3&filter_mono_or_stereo=stereo
 
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MrAstro

Member
Messages
13,624
So does the attenuator actually reduce the amp's power consumption (if I was to measure it with a power consumption meter on the power cord?) and really make it a lower powered amp? or is it more like a master volume.

Just interested because I'm thinking of getting a Twin to replace my practice amps and my higher powered valve amps and reduce clutter. It'd be nice if it didn't consume upwards of 100W for hours while I practiced with it in say 5W mode.
 
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Axe-Man

Member
Messages
6,139
The attenuation keeps the break up at that point and just turns the output down.

This is different than a tube amp where a MV reduces signal to the PI/power tubes etc and reduces gain and fullness. None of that will happen to the TM but Fletcher Munson can’t be avoided nor having the speaker work in its zone.

Fender may have compensated with EQ being added at lower levels to help out here.
 

Elantric

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
9,874
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