New limited Toneczar Echoczar Quad !

cajone5

Some guy
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
2,857
Having owned the echoczar/angelbaby/expression pedal combination I can definitely say that it is not the be-all delay for everyone. I found it very ordinary as an analog delay and the modulation was too over the top over 90% of the knob sweep for my tastes. If you need clarity in delay times above and beyond 600ms analog probably isn't what you need although this one is capable of it... Don't get me wrong, it sounds good. But there are a lot of other options out there that (IMO) sound considerably better for much less $$. Can't imagine dropping almost $2k on a delay unit... but if it's what's gonna make you sound the way you want to then I guess it could be worth it :aok
 

drbob1

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
28,581
There really isn't anything out there that sounds like an Echoczar. The delays are, by intention, less percussive than anything else I've played. Ed states this is so they sit nicely when playing leads and with distortion and that seems to be true. They're also incredibly well suited to ambient kind of stuff. I don't find the modulation to be over the top at all (I've played two of them and the sound and QC was remarkably consistent despite the 5 years between builds). The DM2/Aquapuss/ML2/DMMTT with the hard attack, high overhead delay is very different sounding.

Oh yeah, and I emailed tonight and there are already many more than 7 people on the list ahead of me. I suspect this is the only Echoczar quad that will be sold direct.
 

doom

Member
Messages
51
I've been on the list for some time, and honestly might skip it when my name's called. Expensive units, ridiculous wait, and I already have an analog delay with MN3005's. One that does more than an adequate job for my needs, that satisfies the rarity factor for me.

They're probably quite good, but truly, it doesn't seem worth it. I'm not exactly thinking about the pedal in a "must-have-it" kind of way, and hearing that folks are picking them up for $2000 directly from the source...

I don't know. I don't think I care enough. It's a delay pedal, not an instrument. I'd want a lot more than a few echoes for my money.
 

durbanpoison

Senior Member
Messages
165
The Echoczar/Angelbaby is my fav delay of all time. Period. No other analog delay comes close, IMHO. As for digital delays, well, if you like that sorta thing...more power to you...
 

magnus02

Member
Messages
2,921
Maybe I'll just buy a tape echo when my name comes up instead... I know its a totally different thing but this is quite absurd.....
 

TheWarmth

Member
Messages
1,108
...very pretty well engineered idiot trap.

This is insulting to the builder, who is an absolutely top-notch guy, an innovator of absolutely useful effects and a perfectionist at his craft. It's also insulting to his clients, which includes me. I've had the Echoczar on my board for years. It's amazing. Nothing I've ever played sounds like it. I will never sell it and have never considered putting any other delay on my board. This makes me an idiot?
 
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stratguy23

Member
Messages
3,567
How long is the Echoczar wait currently, anyone have an idea? I know I'm still pretty fair out, I've been on the list nearly two years I think. I do plan to buy it when my name comes up, so I'm just kinda curious how long it will be.
 

magnus02

Member
Messages
2,921
around 4 years...

I've got to believe that it is getting shorter because I'd imagine some people that thought they could afford a $1000 delay 4 years ago can't now...

That and you can't 'make' much money reselling these from what I've seen. Maybe I'm wrong though.

I've been on the list around 2 years if I remember correctly and hope I can afford one when it comes up but I can't decide if I really want it...
 

stratguy23

Member
Messages
3,567
Ed quoted me around 3 years I think, but I thought that seemed short from what I've heard on here. I bet a lot do drop off the waitlist because it is really hard to know that you can afford something that pricey 3-5 years in the future. I figure if I put a dollar a day towards the Echoczar, that should just about cover it when my name comes up. Has anyone compared the Echoczar to the TES? I know they are kind of different, but they are kind of the two most expensive delays around.
 

lv

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,026
I bet this version of the czar sounds amazing...the regular one was a bit dark to my ears. These are the chips used in DMMs, so I bet this version sounds a bit clearer and brighter.

Glad to see Ed get market value for these, the chips are rare and expensive.
 

sagezero_420

Member
Messages
247
According to some notes from #2 that sold last year, it does seem like these will be brighter and quieter than the regular production model:

Featuring:

- four matched NOS Panasonic MN3005 BBD's
- extended dynamic range (punchy)
- wider frequency response (brighter)
- 6 db less hiss than standard echoczar (quieter)
- all other specs are the same as the standard echoczar, (including 1100ms max delay time).

I bet this version of the czar sounds amazing...the regular one was a bit dark to my ears. These are the chips used in DMMs, so I bet this version sounds a bit clearer and brighter.

Glad to see Ed get market value for these, the chips are rare and expensive.
 

lv

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,026
Interesting that it will be quieter, I thought the regular czar was one of the quietest analog delays I've owned.
 

drbob1

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
28,581
There are a couple of differences between the MN3005 and almost any other delay chip: they run on higher voltage (so you can get more dynamic range/won't overload so quickly and can get more attack on the notes), that's easy. The published noise specs are apparently slightly worse for the 3005 than the 3205, but I've owned DM2s with both and my quietest DM2 (for hiss) was unquestionably the one with 3005. They do have a greater frequency response, but that's not the limiting factor in an analog delay, it's the clock frequency and the low pass filter to remove clock noise. That's going to be the same as the regular Echoczar. So, bottom line, is that I'd expect a more dynamic delay with better attack on the notes but not a lot of difference in noise or frequency specs.

Interestingly, the analog delay with the best frequency specs is the Yamaha 1010, uses 4 MN3005s for 300 msec of delay, but nets a frequency response that's nearly 4 times higher than almost anything else...
 

lux_interior

Member
Messages
5,376
Yeah, I remember reading about these chips in somebody's posts (maybe Analogman's) a while ago.

...very pretty well engineered idiot trap.

This is insulting to the builder, who is an absolutely top-notch guy, an innovator of absolutely useful effects and a perfectionist at his craft. It's also insulting to his clients, which includes me. I've had the Echoczar on my board for years. It's amazing. Nothing I've ever played sounds like it. I will never sell it and have never considered putting any other delay on my board. This makes me an idiot?
Don't you think that this answer suggests that these things are taken a bit too seriously? And consequently, maybe that some people are convincing themselves to hear the things that they want to hear with their mega-expensive and ultra-rare equipment? Also, the funny thing is that what is sometimes happening along these lines with boutique pedals, guitars and amps is peanuts compared to what's happening in the high end world of hi fi.
 

XISTH

Member
Messages
1,893
It's no accident that people who run this unit down tend not to own one, whilst those who own one tend to praise it.

Just like a Klon.

Or a baby.
 




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