New QSC K2 firmware - protect mode 4

SarasotaSlim

Member
Messages
1,637
What happened with the new firmware from two weeks ago?
I've had one of mine go into Protect Mode 4 after updating with the new firmware. At the time I was using one of the monitor presets - when I re-set I put it into default mode and it stayed on the rest of the gig. Juicemancomith had problems with both of his after update. QSC might want to rethink this whole thing if the cure is worse than the number of blown speakers and amp modules. With China shut down again it could be a very long time getting new products from almost every brand. I hope these companies come up with some automated assembly factories here in the USA - on that subject - whatever happened to that tube plant in N GA that was gonna start making USA tubes?!?
 

JCW308

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,189
I've had one of mine go into Protect Mode 4 after updating with the new firmware. At the time I was using one of the monitor presets - when I re-set I put it into default mode and it stayed on the rest of the gig. Juicemancomith had problems with both of his after update. QSC might want to rethink this whole thing if the cure is worse than the number of blown speakers and amp modules. With China shut down again it could be a very long time getting new products from almost every brand. I hope these companies come up with some automated assembly factories here in the USA - on that subject - whatever happened to that tube plant in N GA that was gonna start making USA tubes?!?
Sorry to hear this. Better to get away from QSC for a while I guess.
 

Geetarpicker

Member
Messages
3,194
I recently took my K10.2 back to the same shop that put a new amp module in it last year, that did not fix the shut down problem. I’ll take one more shot at it under warranty then I’m done with the .2 series. That said I have two original series K10s that I use very week without fail. I’ll mention when I recently brought my K10.2 back to the shop they had 3 other K10.2s in their pile to be serviced.
 

alsaloky

Member
Messages
62
Other than getting rid of the K10.2s at a potential loss, I would escalate to QSC corporate in Costa Mesa and demand they fix them like they did ours. It is work that Service Centers have not been able to do. It is replacement of BOTH amplifier module AND motherboard. They will pay for shipping both ways. At least they did when I escalated the case (I had the original boxes and packing). I can't speak to current parts availability or repair technician backlog. I do not recommend wasting time with Service Centers. As of last August they had received no bulletin on this fix from Costa Mesa, no instructions, no parts. If you need further guidance please email directly.
 

Droopy_TX

Member
Messages
486
I have a pair of K12.2s and a single K8.2. I have not had any problems, but I don’t usually need to run them very high. I am familiar with the various modes.

Question: There are a few folks on this and other threads indicating that they do not experience the Protect Mode 4 problem when running the speakers in “Default” mode. Is this a viable interim workaround for all?

I know that the “Monitor” modes enable some EQ settings to reduce mic feedback; though, I‘ve not found a lot of details as to what precise changes each mode makes. Seems like that EQing could be done on the mixer vs. the speaker DSP, though, if it avoids the problems.
 
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Steved65

Member
Messages
260
Default mode is not a reliable fix.

There is a thread on here somewhere that shows the EQ curve for each preset. The curves are very "tuned"... you can EQ from the board but you won't get the granularity you will from the speaker preset.
 

SarasotaSlim

Member
Messages
1,637
I have a pair of K12.2s and a single K10.2. I have not had any problems, but I don’t usually need to run them very high. I am familiar with the various modes.

Question: There are a few folks on this and other threads indicating that they do not experience the Protect Mode 4 problem when running the speakers in “Default” mode. Is this a viable interim workaround for all?

I know that the “Monitor” modes enable some EQ settings to reduce mic feedback; though, I‘ve not found a lot of details as to what precise changes each mode makes. Seems like that EQing could be done on the mixer vs. the speaker DSP, though, if it avoids the problems.
Default seems to help with mine. I've had one of mine with the new firmware go into protect mode 4 and after reseting I put into the default setting and it worked fine from that point forward. It's annoying that the presets are not available without the risk of tripping the protect feature but at least they're usable. Now that the prices on new ones has gone way up I'll have to decide if I want to keep using them vs passive speakers with external power amps. The DSP 4 channel QSC power amp that I've been looking at for monitors is not available and I've read about issues with that amp. I asked a repair friend about amps and he said there are no good amps at the moment because all of the new cheap lite amps made in China are destine for failure. I have quite a few of the newfangled amps and they don't last as long as the old school heavy types but I'm not ready to go back to lugging around that kind of weight so I'll cross my fingers that they are repairable*. I'll be looking at Ashley, LEA Professional, and maybe QSC for future amps.

*Crown XTI silver face series are no longer repairable unless you get lucky with a local repair wizard willing to try. Harmon is not making the parts to repair them and they're not offering any repair services for the silver XTI series.
 

MikeVB

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
8,041
Honest question, would one be better off buying the Bose L1 Pro systems at this point to use as a small 1-3 person PA?

I have a k10.2 from 2018 that's never given me any issues. I'd been thinking about buying a second one for a two speaker small PA system. But these protect mode issues have me spooked. I hate it because the K10.2 is the best combo of size:sound I've had out of a pair of QSC K12s and a pair of Yamaha DXR10s.
 

Droopy_TX

Member
Messages
486
Honest question, would one be better off buying the Bose L1 Pro systems at this point to use as a small 1-3 person PA?

I have a k10.2 from 2018 that's never given me any issues. I'd been thinking about buying a second one for a two speaker small PA system. But these protect mode issues have me spooked. I hate it because the K10.2 is the best combo of size:sound I've had out of a pair of QSC K12s and a pair of Yamaha DXR10s.
I think, for two reasons, it depends on how hard you need to push it.

I've seen folks use the Bose L1 to great effect in smaller indoor venues. They also work well in these environs to reduce/eliminate the need for separate monitors. I'm not certain how well they would scale beyond that, though. The power ratings are less than half that of the K2s; but, again, it depends on your needs.

My understanding from the reports here is that folks are experiencing the protect mode issue (mainly with the K10.2) when having to push the speakers pretty hard; like, some saying they were running them around "3 o'clock". I am puzzled by this as my K12.2 and K8.2 speakers are LOUD. I rarely get them to 0.0 dB ("12 o'clock") even in outside events. I think in some cases, though, they were being used as monitors; so, perhaps monitor gain staging may be driving such a high output setting.

So, to my first point, if you don’t need to run the PA/monitors too hot, I think either would do. There are definite advantages with the all-in-one Bose system, but also with flexibility of having separate components with the QSC ecosystem.

I know this isn’t a definitive answer, but hopefully it helps you to consider your options.
 
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Steved65

Member
Messages
260
@MikeVB , if your 1-3 piece group is mainly acoustic or easy listening... the line arrays will work fine in small indoor and even small patio shows.

If your group is rock or dance-oriented... I'd stay away from the Bose... they sound clear and clean... but don't make your body want to move.
 

alsaloky

Member
Messages
62
Default seems to help with mine. I've had one of mine with the new firmware go into protect mode 4 and after reseting I put into the default setting and it worked fine from that point forward. It's annoying that the presets are not available without the risk of tripping the protect feature but at least they're usable. Now that the prices on new ones has gone way up I'll have to decide if I want to keep using them vs passive speakers with external power amps. The DSP 4 channel QSC power amp that I've been looking at for monitors is not available and I've read about issues with that amp. I asked a repair friend about amps and he said there are no good amps at the moment because all of the new cheap lite amps made in China are destine for failure. I have quite a few of the newfangled amps and they don't last as long as the old school heavy types but I'm not ready to go back to lugging around that kind of weight so I'll cross my fingers that they are repairable*. I'll be looking at Ashley, LEA Professional, and maybe QSC for future amps.

*Crown XTI silver face series are no longer repairable unless you get lucky with a local repair wizard willing to try. Harmon is not making the parts to repair them and they're not offering any repair services for the silver XTI series.
I'm not sure why changing to 'Default' would bear on this. Although we've just recently gone to that setting after running K10.2 mains+subs and K8.2 monitors in other DSP modes, that was for a different reason (just like it better, and for the K8.2s seems to give us the needed omph). At the tail end of last summer, when we got our four re-worked K10.2s back from QSC HQ, we used them in 'Live' for mains, and that didn't provoke Protect Mode 4 at anywhere between 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock. July 6th will be our first outdoor gig of the summer season, and we plan to crank them up for nine out of ten gigs (10th one plugging into commerical sound vendor PA).
 

alsaloky

Member
Messages
62
I think, for two reasons, it depends on how hard you need to push it.

I've seen folks use the Bose L1 to great effect in smaller indoor venues. They also work well in these environs to reduce/eliminate the need for separate monitors. I'm not certain how well they would scale beyond that, though. The power ratings are less than half that of the K2s; but, again, it depends on your needs.

My understanding from the reports here is that folks are experiencing the protect mode issue (mainly with the K10.2) when having to push the speakers pretty hard; like, some saying they were running them around "3 o'clock". I am puzzled by this as my K12.2 and K8.2 speakers are LOUD. I rarely get them to 0.0 dB ("12 o'clock") even in outside events. I think in some cases, though, they were being used as monitors; so, perhaps monitor gain staging may be driving such a high output setting.

So, to my first point, if you don’t need to run the PA/monitors too hot, I think either would do. There are definite advantages with the all-in-one Bose system, but also with flexibility of having separate components with the QSC ecosystem.

I know this isn’t a definitive answer, but hopefully it helps you to consider your options.
If you comb the thread, Protect Mode 4 happens to most everyone anywhere from 12 o'clock (maybe even lower) and higher. In our case in 2021 it happened at both 12 o'clock and 1 o'clock using four K10.2s as mains, plus QSC KS112 subs. This was full big band at 25 channels of full tilt sound. But others have experienced this in a wide variety of band configurations, as small as just one acoustic instrument, and DJ scenarios. We have definitely had instances where, to reach as far as we can in a decent-size outdoor park or large enough indoor venue (with the right acousitcs) , we can justify going to 1 o'clock or a tad more on the K10.2s. In our specific case, we're using K8.2s for on-stage monitors - which do NOT suffer from Protect Mode 4.... huge population of 10.2 and a smaller population of 12.2s). They need to be totally cranked to between 1 o'clock to 3 o'clock all the time. Great size, weight, and dispersion for on stage big band monitor application, but just a couple dB difference down from K10.2s requires them to be maxxed out.
 

chinstrap

Member
Messages
1,108
Preface that I am a retired audio professional, with 35 years of audio system design experience. After noticing some very peculiar behaviors in the speaker response, I did a TEF analysis over some of these same enclosures and couldn't resolve the bizarre behavior of the filters in the crossovers...to a layperson, that's audio design basics 101 for coherency and things like gain before feedback. This is not haughty haute couture audio stuff, it's the ABCs of speaker design. I was told the traces were "textbook" examples by QSC tech support. I assure it was not. Instead of curiosity or concern, I received pushback.
 

Droopy_TX

Member
Messages
486
I'm not sure why changing to 'Default' would bear on this. Although we've just recently gone to that setting after running K10.2 mains+subs and K8.2 monitors in other DSP modes, that was for a different reason (just like it better, and for the K8.2s seems to give us the needed omph). At the tail end of last summer, when we got our four re-worked K10.2s back from QSC HQ, we used them in 'Live' for mains, and that didn't provoke Protect Mode 4 at anywhere between 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock. July 6th will be our first outdoor gig of the summer season, and we plan to crank them up for nine out of ten gigs (10th one plugging into commerical sound vendor PA).
Good luck! Please let us know your results. TIA
 

disconnector

It's been swell, but the swelling's gone down.
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,918
Preface that I am a retired audio professional, with 35 years of audio system design experience. After noticing some very peculiar behaviors in the speaker response, I did a TEF analysis over some of these same enclosures and couldn't resolve the bizarre behavior of the filters in the crossovers...to a layperson, that's audio design basics 101 for coherency and things like gain before feedback. This is not haughty haute couture audio stuff, it's the ABCs of speaker design. I was told the traces were "textbook" examples by QSC tech support. I assure it was not. Instead of curiosity or concern, I received pushback.

I'd love to hear more . . . can you add detail to what you saw?
 




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