New Roland Guitar Synths?

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by stratamania, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. germanicus

    germanicus Member

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    I would bet you couldn't tell the difference between that and a real sax on a recording. Don't listen with your eyes!





    (;))
     
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  2. shredmiyagi

    shredmiyagi Member

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    Wouldn’t it be better to finally blend the VG tech into the next big GT, with a GR synth engine as well? It might expand the 13-pin audience if every casual GT buyer wonders what that GK pickup might open up.

    What’s the big deal with adding a 13-pin input and the VG algorithms to a GT-2000?

    I use the GP-10 on tons of gigs and use the 13-pin about 10% of the time. The od, eq, delay sound great with a regular 1/4” mag signal, and I get a wah and volume. When i need alt tunings, octave/bass or some L5 or Strat modeling I use my Synth-Ready guitars. It’s nice to have the option.

    I don’t personally ever want to use PCM sample sounds but i just don’t see the point of making another GR unit. There is hardly a difference between the GR1, GR30 and GR55 as far as sample tracking goes. It’s 100% as reliable as your GK/pickup setup and your playing approach (no palm muting, adjust picking to the patch, etc), and in general just very unreliable. :messedup:dunno
     
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  3. hippietim

    hippietim Silver Supporting Member

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    Roland never seems to get this notion of building a mega kick ass unit. I've wanted this for years. The VGs, GRs, GTs, GP-10, etc. are all subsets and supersets of each other. It's whacky really.
     
  4. stratamania

    stratamania Member

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    I would go for that if the released it alongside the existing GT1000. Then there is a choice for folks that want it with Synth capability and those that don't. Additionally, one newer item is not held up for another's release cycle.
     
  5. Will Chen

    Will Chen Member

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    Roland/Boss ultimate goal is to make money and generally speaking that involves capturing the widest market possible. Their guitar synths are an extremely niche product, the only way forward IMHO is to try and pull in the more casual player and that will never happen on a product which requires a GK pickup. What they did with the SY and what EHX is doing with their synth pedals is the immediate future, like it or not. It's only a matter of time before EHX, Line 6, or Fractal allows polyphonic pitch to synth/midi without any special pickup. Roland is almost there, they have the tools to be first to market. If they squander it their guitar synth market will be dead.
     
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  6. hippietim

    hippietim Silver Supporting Member

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    Nobody has gotten mono pitch-to-MIDI working good enough for the average guitar player. We're a long way from polyphonic pitch-to-MIDI being viable. Then there's problems like pitch bend from a polyphonic source can't be expressed in MIDI - so any bend that involves another string will not work. So no Chuck Berry licks or double stop bends without a divided pickup.
     
  7. germanicus

    germanicus Member

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    The VG99 was probably the closest they have come to that. For a stretch of time I was using it with a small netbook (via USB) that ran softsynths. Using a VST host program I controlled everything (guitar/amp/fx selections, synth settings, etc.) from the fc300.

    2 seperate modeling/amp/fx chains, versatile alternate tunings, hrm synthesis, and PTM.

    Unfortunately, I think that such a unit as described above (an all in unit with top of the roland line guitar/amp/fx/hrm/ptm/internal synth) is too costly for the potential market size. I don't think the vg99 sold all that well, even though it was brilliant. The gr55 sold much better. It was a jack of all trades at a relatively affordable price.

    There's also the aspect of having to pay for features you may not want. For instance, I would rather not pay for a lower end built in synth engine with dated sounds that I will never use. This coupled with the fact that if i'm paying a significant amount, theres a point where I would sacrifice the convenience of a single all in one unit, to get better performance/sounds from a frankenstein setup (Variax with Tripleplay into a Helix or Fractal/Kemper, with a laptop running the best soft synths available).

    The GP-10 is fantastic bang for the buck, and can easily be used as the centerpiece of a powerful expanded modeling/pitch to midi setup.
     
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  8. germanicus

    germanicus Member

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    In addition, no divided pickup = no alternate tunings.
    I realize for many, they may not care, but this is a total non starter for me.
    80% of my reason for initially getting a variax and vg99 were their alternate tuning capabilities.
     
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  9. germanicus

    germanicus Member

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    I agree they are likely to sell a lot more units if you don't needs a divided pickup.
    However, those mono units (sy300 and EHX pedals) are not pitch to midi.

    Additionaly, I may be wrong as I don't own them, but i heard they are rather poor at handling more than 3 notes at a time.

    Don't get me wrong I'd love to be able to use my non 13 pin/tripleplay mounted guitars for PTM or HRM synthesis, but not if the performance is worse.
     
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  10. stratamania

    stratamania Member

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    Sorry, I don't agree. Roland would not have spent as much time on Guitar synthesis as it did over the years if all it wanted to do was have the broadest market appeal and capture the widest markets possible.

    I want alternate tunings as pointed out by other posters. Hex pickup of one form or another is needed.

    It simply does not have to be about avoiding special pickups or keeping them in some form or other. It should be about products being available that serve the different market sectors.
     
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  11. Will Chen

    Will Chen Member

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    Alternate tunings in and of itself is an extremely nitche need. Again, no business will succeed if it can not move product. What's going to sell more, a product which requires a slight modification to ones guitar to handle nitche needs or a product one can plug a standard 1/4" cable in?

    I can absolutely promise that if Roland releases another GK unit and one of their competitors offers polyphonic synth tones and pitch to midi with a single guitar cable those Roland boxes be be closed out within a year of release.
     
  12. phil_m

    phil_m Supporting Member

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    Roland isn't necessarily the same company now as it was when Ikutaro Kakehashi was at the helm... Just based on some of their more recent offerings, they seem to be more interested in producing products that have more mass appeal than some of their older offering, and some of that seems to be in response to what other companies are doing. I'm not saying that's all a bad thing - you have to make stuff that appeals to a wide swatch of people.

    At NAMM last year, the Roland electronic music room was about twice as large as the guitar room.
     
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  13. stratamania

    stratamania Member

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    @Will Chen Its not about what sells more. There are all sorts of needs for instruments. Roland is large enough to have diversified product.
    Alternate tunings are also a major selling point of the Line 6 Variax so the niche must be large enough. People have made millions selling to niches.
    Time will tell whether your prediction is correct. For the rest, we will have to agree to disagree.

    @phil_m I would say it was about the same as the last Musikmesse I went to. Again time will tell which way Roland go.
     
  14. Elantric

    Elantric Silver Supporting Member

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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  15. edwarddavis

    edwarddavis Supporting Member

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    I still use a gr 1 still soundscthe best
     
  16. mbenigni

    mbenigni Member

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    I’m with you on the importance of alt tunings, but I get there with Variax (hex pickup and audio summing on guitar) plus Jam Origin PTM. As always, there’s a couple ways to skin the cat. (I suppose if you want your MIDI tuning completely independent of your guitar tuning - beyond straight transposition - you’re out of luck, but that’s pretty esoteric stuff.)

    And I don’t know, maybe my most recent experience with hex PTM (GR55) was subpar, but Jam Origin doesn’t feel like a step down to me. No, it isn’t as feature rich (as already detailed above) and maybe it’s measurably slower in some way? :dunno But if anything it’s been more stable/ less inclined to glitch than my old GK rig. I know pitch bend and velocity sensitivity are less versatile than GK, but that seldom matters for the kinds of voices I’d drive with MIDI anyway. E.g. when I want to play Chuck Berry licks I want to play guitar. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  17. Elantric

    Elantric Silver Supporting Member

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    Shame you never experienced the Roland VG-99

    I never touch my GR-55 , it's way too glitchy.
    Meanwhile wirh my VG 99 -that's a real tool i can use


    Below is Bill Ruppert in 2008 - all sound from 2007 Roland VG-99. and Ibanez JEM with GK-3 (no guitar to MIDI was used)


    Today the dream rig is VG 99 , connected via S/PDIF feeding a Helix

    many are adopting that type rig at Vguitarforums as the ultimate today in 2019

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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  18. brain21

    brain21 Member

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    This. I have a vg-8ex, vg-88, Wave Processor, and gp-10. I *hate* the gk pickups. Thisi s 25 year old tech. Let's apply some of Moores law here. I want something that is simple and virtually invisible to install. A pickup ring setup like what SD did to switch the P-rails would be great. A humbucker that consists of a gk pup paired w/ a std single coil or p90 would be a great option.

    If we still need a multi-wire setup, let's learn from L6 and use cat5 or cat6 cables. They are plentiful, cheap, and reliable. 3 things that 13 pin cables are not. We can take the cable from the guitar to something on the floor rather than something mounted on the guitar. Seriously. If Moores law doesn't help the wart on the guitar, move that MFer to the floor.

    If they want to increase adoption, they should start with making it easier for those that already want it and are turned off by the current system.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019 at 12:41 AM
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  19. brain21

    brain21 Member

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    Another device that I would like to see (I may be in the minority) is a twin pedal form factor (like my gk-powered wave processor) device that does the following:
    - guitar modeling (acoustic, electric, the std setup)
    - virtual tuning (for open tunings, etc)
    - 7 ch. Outputs (std instrument TS connections - 6 strings plus a dry bypass)
    - an internal mixer that will allow me to send any strings' signal to any outputs other than the ch7 dry bypass).
    - The option for ext expression via Midi or std expression pedals to control output channel (sweep the pedal to xfade the left & right signal splits, etc)

    No amps. No synths. No fx. Just v-guitar, v-tuning, and mixing options. And it needs to be in the $200-$250 price range. I'd be first in line for that!! Sadly, I think the GP-10 is the closest I'll get to that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019 at 12:42 AM
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