New Scumback M75-PVCs Killer!

[Dave_C]

Just posted a long, detailed account but got logged out in the process and lost it all! ARGH! It this now the default for the forum?




Anyways, loaded up the new Scumback M75-PVCs in my Germino 4x12 last night and have logged about 2 hours on them now, comparing them to everything I own and in many different amp/cab/speaker combinations, for reference. These replaced a quad of Weber-built M75s, which I absolutely loved, BTW. However, these new Seavall-built M75-PVCs take the whole game to a new level, as did the Seavall-rebuilt M75-LHDC did when I first heard that and compared it to the old stuff.

In addition to the added reedy, woody, vintage mid 60s Greenback vibe, I noticed increased clarity, air and sustain in the M75-PVCs compared to the old M75s which I still have loaded in a Germino 2x12. They have so much going on, it’s really hard to put it in words. You gotta’ hear it to believe it. Just killer. The Thorn video on the Scumback website is an incredibly accurate comparison of these different speaker types but, IMO, the M75-PVCs (and the Seavall-rebuilt M75-LHDC) shine even more when you dial in the amp to match each speaker.

Not sure if it’s the PVC or the new manufacturing process or both, but these new M75-PVCs sound better with my other non-Marshall style amps than do the old M75s. This quad in the 4x12 just seems to sound amazing with every amp I throw at it, even the D-styles! The Maz 18 and Glaswerks were kinda’ muddy with the old M75s, no matter how I dialed the amps, but just come alive with the M75-PVCs.

Glad I took the chance on these! I now feel like my Germino 4x12 rig is complete. Now, I'm gotta' get two more for my Germino 2x12! HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!

Edit: Added some pics. Sorry I didn't take any of the front of the speakers.

To dispell any rumors that wood screws are used to mount the Germino handles.

 

[Buckeyedog]

I got to hear the PVC's in person at the amp show last weekend. They did sound fabulous for sure.

 

[DICKIE C]

How about the 'chunk' factor, Dave? Good bottom end or mostly mids? If you can, try to describe some more of the 'so much going on' you mentioned?

How about a few clips w/ dat Monterey? (I know, demanding right?)

 

[Roe]

I'm saving up for a quad, but havent decided whether I'm going for a tall cab or not

 

[cubistguitar]

I'm saving up for a quad, but havent decided whether I'm going for a tall cab or not

yes yes must save now!

 

[Roe]

I want the pinstripe cloth although its expensive

 

[Dave_C]

How about the 'chunk' factor, Dave? Good bottom end or mostly mids? If you can, try to describe some more of the 'so much going on' you mentioned?

How about a few clips w/ dat Monterey? (I know, demanding right?)

DC,

As for chunk factor, Jim told me to expect these to be not as "deep" as the M75s but, strangely, I found I had to roll down the bass knob a touch to get my old balance in the low end. Seemed like there was more low end, not less. I guess that could be because the M75s had a "tighter" low end and not really less of it. I know these 20W vintage style speaks can get loose on the low end at high volumes, but I don't really do a lot of "chunk" type rhythm riffs at high volume, so I didn't focus on that aspect too much. Plus, I didn't run the Monterey 100 w/o an attenuator because...well, first of all, it's too loud! Secondly, at 80W for the cab, I didn't want any house fires with the PVCs! LOL.

As for the "so much going on", it's something that started to show itself when swapping back-n-forth with the 2x12 M75 cab and really listening to pick attack response, sustain, bloom, etc. The M75-PVC just seemd to breath and bloom more, with more "air" and clarity between the notes and a more complex midrange with all these flavor "notes" swirling in the mix from start to finish...exactly like the difference on the tongue between a really nice bottle of wine and something from the next tier down (which doesn't always correlate with price, BTW ). It almost felt like there was a tiny touch of reverb added in the mix even though I was testing all speaks totally dry.

The pick attack with OD into the M75-PVCs seemed to go through more tonal "stages" from start to finish than with the old M75s, which presented the pick attack with a more uniform sound from start to finish. But, even with all these harmonics, dynamics and "colors" in tone, even really heavy OD tones were smooth, like the old M75s...no fizz, harshness, hair, congestion, harshness, etc.

As for clips, I plan to record a gig this Friday, so if anything comes out of it worth presenting, I definitely throw some clips up! It'll just be the H2, so nothing super high fidelity.

 

[Dave_C]

I'm saving up for a quad, but havent decided whether I'm going for a tall cab or not

If going tall, better work on some low back exercises while waiting too!

 

[Roe]

haha

 

[Dave_C]

I want the pinstripe cloth although its expensive

Yeah, I honestly think it's priced too high for what it is, but the look and the sound made it worth doing on at least one cab for me. But, then, I felt I had to go out and get a heavy duty cover to help prevent damage too, so that was another $160! Turns out the heavy cover also helps with lifting the cab safely, so THAT is worth the price of admission alone.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Funny you brought up the EC Cloth, I'm working up a quote for a client in Australia for a tall cab w/EC cloth right now.

While the EC cloth is expensive, it does provide a unique tone and look. Many times people feel they have "drunk the Kool Aid" of certain hyped products online.

The EC BluesBreaker Pinstripe cloth is one of those that lives up to the hype. I have that cloth on (gulp) six cabinets. That's right...SIX. I'm on my second pitcher of Kool Aid where that's concerned.

When I get my demo room cleaned up (a mess from the recent amp show and over 100 speakers ordered in the last 4 days) I'll post some new pics with all of them in one shot.

As for the M75-PVC, thanks for the review Dave C. StockRock's idea of taking one speaker output out to a load box/etc, and the other to the cab should work fine in reducing the output of a 100w Super Lead (or similar) amp to the PVC loaded cab, too.

 

[Roe]

should be safe with an ordinary 50w marshall

 

[jamison162]

These replaced a quad of Weber-built M75s, which I absolutely loved, BTW.

25w or 65w Webers?

 

[Scumback Speakers]

I cranked my 50w Plexi clone into a quad of M75-PVC 20w all weekend at the amp show. Volume setting was on 9 (not 9 o'clock) out of 10. If Dave built you a 50w amp, you should be good to go with the 4x12 loaded with PVC's.

For a 100w head, two 4x12's with PVC's would be the ticket.

 

[Dave_C]

Yeah, even worse if you're in California, but I have never had so many compliments on a cab's look and performance. So many great cabs out there - I've got Stone Age, Wizard, Mills, and vintage Marshall, really love them all. But the EC really pops visually - people go out of their way to say how nice the Scumback 4x12 with EC cloth is. And my amp tech loves how it was built too. I believe in the sonic difference too because of swaps I've done on smaller combos and cabs. I wonder if one day I'll have the balls to order a SB 4x12 naked with the EC grillcloth.

Thanks for the Review Dave! If you put one speaker out to a load, you should be able to crank your Monterey. I haven't loaded my M75PVCs in anything yet.

Funny you brought up the EC Cloth, I'm working up a quote for a client in Australia for a tall cab w/EC cloth right now.

While the EC cloth is expensive, it does provide a unique tone and look. Many times people feel they have "drunk the Kool Aid" of certain hyped products online.

The EC BluesBreaker Pinstripe cloth is one of those that lives up to the hype. I have that cloth on (gulp) six cabinets. That's right...SIX. I'm on my second pitcher of Kool Aid where that's concerned.

When I get my demo room cleaned up (a mess from the recent amp show and over 100 speakers ordered in the last 4 days) I'll post some new pics with all of them in one shot.

As for the M75-PVC, thanks for the review Dave C. StockRock's idea of taking one speaker output out to a load box/etc, and the other to the cab should work fine in reducing the output of a 100w Super Lead (or similar) amp to the PVC loaded cab, too.

You're welcome, guys. My pleasure!

I mentioned this in another post and was greeted with a healthy dose of skepticism, but I'm a believer in the tone difference with the EC cloth as well, based on the 4x12 to 2x12 comparisons I've done with identical speakers, although I'll admit my comparison wasn't totally apples to apples because of the 4x12/2x12 differences themselves.

As for the volume vs. damage issue, it'll never be a problem for me because I'll never need to push anything near 80W into that cab and I'm perfectly happy with the way the Alex preserves the tone, although running the amp at 8 ohms and hooking up one output into a 16 ohm attenuator on load and the other into the cab is an excellent way of getting a pretty darn transparent -3dB SPL reduction!

What's so interesting about all this stuff is how essentially the first cracks at this technology and what amounted to limitations in it actually made for what we perceive as a more sonically pleasing result. From what I understand, the rubberized strips in the cloth were added simply to help prevent tears in the original cloth types tried. Who'd a thunk they made it sound "better" compared to later, more "durable" cloth types that didn't need the rubberizing treatment? Same thing with the paper voice coil formers being replaced with a more durable material later on.

 

[Dave_C]

25w or 65w Webers?

Oops, sorry...65W Webers.

 

[Dave_C]

I cranked my 50w Plexi clone into a quad of M75-PVC 20w all weekend at the amp show. Volume setting was on 9 (not 9 o'clock) out of 10. If Dave built you a 50w amp, you should be good to go with the 4x12 loaded with PVC's.

For a 100w head, two 4x12's with PVC's would be the ticket.

Wow, seems like that would be pushing it! I thought a cranked 50 watter could put out 80+ watts. In any case, if you didn't smoke anything doing that all weekend, there's no way I'll ever come close to it myself using a 70-80W amp pushed just over max clean with pedals that never gets above -9dB on the Alex (essentially about 8-10W...maybe up to 12-13W depending how far past max clean I'm actually going).

 

[I'm Incinerator]

sounds nice!

while it isn't a PVC, I have a new M75 65 coming my way. I am saving up for another one to put into a 2x12 Fender Super Sonic cab to play a 6G6-B type amp through, which I should be putting in the order sometime next week! Someday I would love to have a Tall 4x12 with the EC cloth and m75 PVCs and a Germino Classic 45 or Club 40 running through it...or a Classic 45LV 2x12 combo with the EC cloth and a combo of M75 scumnico....or... .

 

[Dave_C]

Added some pics to the opening post.

 

[JimPridx]

Not sure if it’s the PVC or the new manufacturing process or both, but........

Dave, that sounds like a great quad of speakers! I can't speak for the paper cone models myself since I haven't tried them, but I will say that the new manufacturing process has made me a firm believer that the new Scumbacks are a significant notch above the old ones in terms of tone and overall versatility between amps.