New to Modeling-need help from everyone-Lowly SCXD way better than expected

[telelion]

All the help I can get will be greatly appreciated. I've scanned this section and will now track it but I am too far behind(and way too much work and I read TGP all the time-not a search solution) to not just be a moron so I ask the experts what's up? I'm not a tube snob per say but in the past I tried the typical earlier generation modelers and the Digitechs, Zooms, Yamaha, etc. and all were terrible which I don't think will get much dispute on here. I then lost track of the developements.

I bought the Fender Super Champ XD merely as a practice amp when it went onsale a few months back for 2 bills based on glowing reviews on the amp page and tried one and was pleasantly surprised that the natural blackface tone was very good so it was a no brainer. Without the BF factor I would have had no interest. But some of the patches were far better than I ever expected and some actually superior to the boutique pedals I have, at least to my ears in some areas. They seemed more "connected." Mind you this is at home dubbing around. And folks on the amp page were raving too. But am I crazy? Also I know the effects are nothing to write home about(no problem) and I'm aware it is not even close and very limited to the Axe or 11 and others I'm sure, but it was an eye opener. There were a few very good patches with some tweaking. So here I am. Totally ignorant.

As much as I respect Jon and the others with the high end rigs, and I believe that they would satisfy me, it is not my thing in the present format. Unfortunately too, because I am now a believer without even hearing them other than clips. If they come out with one for dummies that you can plug into a blackface clean I'm there. Why don't they? First of all my goal is to cut down on my amps and guitars and start simplifying, not getting more complicated.

Sure I would still keep a good old BF and I guess a high quality channel switcher but searching for all the different flavors in amps and more endless pedal searching would be a treat to see come to an end. I'm now thinking like you guys, right?

I am now a home player/studio, but a quality versatile sideman type player with lots of gigging in the past(that's the resume) but as part of my collection I would like to put together the best rig I can get, without the undue complexity as I have limited time wise(plus young kids) not to mention too lame. But still with the traditional BF Fender amp as the engine as it showed me it should be possible to do it per the SCXD experience and that is home to me. So what you recommend that is better, and please tell me how it compares to the best modelers and the big name boutique OD pedals. Also how is the SCXD regarded over here at it's best.

I would be happy with an exceptional handful covering the gamut of OD. You know, great sustaining lead, crunch, tweed, in betweeners, blues, etc. But I don't want to discover that I find them one dimensional after a time and get sick of them. Classics. Just tell me what you recommend what it excells in and what it does not. And what is regarded as the weaker stuff out there would be nice to know as well.

I'm sure this is redundant on here as it is so obvious but I'll ask anyway. Is the day coming when a trickle down will happen soon where us simpletons can get the best of what is out there, but plugged into a Twin with some tweakablity but not overkill which to me is not necessary anymore than it is on a great tube amp if it sounds good to begin with. I guarnatee many would be interested in a modeler like that. So thanks for any input and I am happy to have discovered this field which I had previously dismissed.

 

[Axe-Man]

Not 100% sure what you're asking but here's a stab at it...

From ok to better...in the modeler realm...IMHO...YMMV etc etc...

POD 1/2>Tonelabs>POD XT>RP500/RP1000 series>POD X3/X3 Live>Eleven Rack>Axe Fx

Do they sound exactly like a tube rig?

No...appart from the Axe Fx.

Are any simple to use?

Yes...but they require a little tweaking that IMO is pretty easy.

Just think of it like a pedal board/amp arrangement that you are micing for a gig...add a comp...add a dist...pick and adjust the amp/cab...adjust the mic type/placement...EQ the final sound

It's just like real life and makes a HUGE difference to just picking an amp and playing.

You can EQ the high end, boost the mids, fatten to lows...simple, common sense stuff.

Modelers really do sound good but the Axe currently stands at the top of the pile.

Soon (3-5 years) the dispartity will close and they will all sound just about like an amp...for POD money.

Future looks bright.

 

[dk123123dk]

I'm a Digitech rp500 user. I play in a cover band and have to be able to switch between various tones with one button. I used to only play with tubes, but recently I have been converted to digital modeling.

The tones are close enough, and it really is cool to have basically every single effect/amp created all in one box. I also like that you can play with a traditional guitar rig or direct to the PA. The options can be staggering, which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you look at things.

The best thing about using a modeling rig, is I can get great tones at low volumes. So I can practice late night with headphones, run direct to the PA for rehearsals, and use the RP as a virtual pedalboard for my clean tube amp live.

dk

 

[telelion]

So I should get some very usable sounds(better than the OD in my SCXD) with the rp500 plugged into a BF Fender? And is what you have far improved over what I heard a decade ago, the usual stuff? It seems the mainstream stuff is far better than not too long ago. Is that correct?

Thanks for the response and also to Axe-Man.

Look forward to the future but still I want it with traditional amps.

I'm a Digitech rp500 user. I play in a cover band and have to be able to switch between various tones with one button. I used to only play with tubes, but recently I have been converted to digital modeling.

The tones are close enough, and it really is cool to have basically every single effect/amp created all in one box. I also like that you can play with a traditional guitar rig or direct to the PA. The options can be staggering, which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you look at things.

The best thing about using a modeling rig, is I can get great tones at low volumes. So I can practice late night with headphones, run direct to the PA for rehearsals, and use the RP as a virtual pedalboard for my clean tube amp live.

dk

 

[Axe-Man]

No worries Telelion.

IMO whilst modelers work great with FRFR PA type setups and they do work with traditional amps...this in effect colours the sound and won't allow them to actually sound like the amp you are trying to emulate. Hence the use of flat response speaker systems that allow the modeler to sound like a Fender, or a Vox, or a Marshall for example.

Have you thought of multi-fx?

Something like the Line 6 M13 is amp simple and sounds great. It comes with 100 effects that would make your BF rock.

I personally own a 120 watt and a 15 watt tube amp and the POD X3 Live and M13 and a PA and think they all have their place.

They are all cool additions to my studio but the M13 and X3 get used the most as they don't need tube replacements, still sound great (but like a mic'd amp rather than a 'live' amp) and I can get searing amount of gain at low volume...plus they don't annoy the wife as I can also use headphones.

 

[peridot1]

I have the RP1000. When I go direct I use a tube pedal in the stomp loop. Either DC Womanizer or AMT SS-20. I also use the Character Series -> Womanizer. I'm happy with these sounds and feel I don't need to spend anymore money on modeling.

Well.. until I saw the new character pedal Namm pics.

 

[strumminsix]

POD 1/2>Tonelabs>POD XT>RP500/RP1000 series>POD X3/X3 Live>Eleven Rack>Axe Fx

Do they sound exactly like a tube rig?

No...appart from the Axe Fx.

Are any simple to use?

Yes...but they require a little tweaking that IMO is pretty easy.

Dude? Seriously? Do you get a commission from Fractal?
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The ElevenRack and AxeFx to my ears both sound like quality tube amps properly mic'd and either recorded or coming out mains.

Most folks, on the merit of basic amp+reverb+cab+mic say the 11 and Axe are very similar.

The Axe can, however, does offer very detailed tweaking.
The 11, by contrast, does not but offers up a simple UI while the Axe's is not.

My amigos with the Axe needed many, many hours of tweaking to get their Axe up and running. I had my rig, sounding like me, in an hour tops.

The FX on the AXE are OUTSTANDING!!!! The tweaking there makes me drool.

The 11 give you enough to get through a show.

This whole "sounds like an amp" is really silly, IMO. If I want to "sound like an amp" I'll bring a bloody amp. When I use a modller I want to sound like a great tube amp properly mic'd up in an iso booth coming out the mains!

 

[Axe-Man]

Dude? Seriously? Do you get a commission from Fractal?

Bro, this is naturally my opinion (me being the sole Australian Snax employee and all that hehe...)and I don't want to come across as a wanker or PITA but...

I don't personally think the 11 Rack sounds that different than the RP series or the POD X3 series...hence my ranking.

Hi-Z might make it play slightly differently with more dynamics...but the tones...just sound the same to me.

I can at least hear the difference between a RP/POD and the Snax...

The snax might not sound exactly like a live amp...contrary to what owners say...but it sure sounds close enough to me.

I think the 11 Rack is a great idea as a modeler come recording interface...but as a straight out tone device I personally haven't heard a clip of it that I like as much as these PODs - http://www.robtognoni.com/line6.htm

Plus it's going for $1299 here in Aus (and it needs a floorboard solution) and the X3 bean $649/Live $749

I know which one I picked (I obviously don't own the Snax...Cliff you could change this!) and I'm really happy...I can also gig with it without spending any more cash...

Note: I was just going to post this and I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt and listen to some professionally recorded clips on youtube...not from 5 year olds...but owners of studios, reviewers and the like...

And I've got to say...I'm frankly quite surprised about what I heard...sorry bro

It's now POD 1/2>Tonelabs>POD XT>RP500/RP1000 series>Eleven Rack>POD X3/X3 Live>Axe Fx

The metal tones I heard were bad (just like a straight up non EQ'd 5150 patch on the POD with no Comp) and the cleans/crunch not amazingly flash either...

Now this of course is just my POV and the reviewers/engineers demo'ing it could all have been hopeless...but I've been mucking about with my X3 Live for a few weeks now and I've been able to dial in some pretty solid tones that work through a PA.

None sound like a real amp but they do sound better to me than the tones I've heard in relation to the 11R.

If you've got some clips that can demo the 11, please post them...I really did want to like the 11R when I heard about it. I'm guessing it should sound better than the X3!

 

[dk123123dk]

So I should get some very usable sounds(better than the OD in my SCXD) with the rp500 plugged into a BF Fender? And is what you have far improved over what I heard a decade ago, the usual stuff? It seems the mainstream stuff is far better than not too long ago. Is that correct?

Thanks for the response and also to Axe-Man.

Look forward to the future but still I want it with traditional amps.

I cannot say for sure if it will be "better" than your current SCXD. I have played with the SCXD in a store, but do not own one. Plus tones are subjective, so what sounds good to my ears, might not be good enough for yours.

Have modelers improved? I would say yes! The latest Digitech stuff is the best I have personally tried, but I have yet to try an 11 rack, or AXE FX.

I think ANY setup has compromises. Modeling setups are no different. The only way to see if they work for you, is to try them yourself. I found an RP500 used for $200 with a gig bag. I'm fairly confident that I could get close to my money back if I ever decided to sell. Also many guitar centers, and online retailers, offer 30-45 day return policies. So you could try out the pedal yourself, and return it if it didn't live up to your expectations.

I think the best way to run a modeler is through a PA or full range cab. The digitech units can be used with traditional guitar rigs, but you aren't using the product to its true potential.

Running through a tube power amp can warm up the signal a bit, but this also colors the sound. For example if you use a power amp with dual 6L6GC tubes, you might not nail the chime of a Vox model which uses EL84 power tubes. Again this part of the equation is up to the user to decide which method works best for them.

Hope this helps! Good luck.

dk