New Yamaha THR?

jageya

Member
Messages
4,251
Yes, that defense was bizarre. I like stompboy, but sometimes you see people defending a bad decision - either because it's their job or they're invested themselves in DEFENDING THE PRODUCT so much - that it makes you wonder what they are thinking.

The Yamaha decision to make this a REAL amp, by gosh, and real amps don't have presets, you know went way too far. You have a digital amp with a custom built computer interface, and you can't even store presets inside the computer program? Forget about theoretically cluttering up an amp panel with preset buttons or LED displays - this is just setting data stored on a computer somewhere that could send that data directly to the amp - the same way the knobs on the amp send the data to the amp and control the parameters. The THR5/10 series did it, so it's not like it's some advanced alien technology that Yamaha couldn't master. It was, instead, part of a ill conceived "let's make this so real amp like that people will forget it's digital" plan that went way too far.

And to head off the inevitable "but that means you need to have a computer connected that's not like a real amp!!!" defense against my suggestion, yamaha made the decision to require you to hook up to that same computer and program to just switch between OD and reverb types. So it's not like they're anti computer purists by any means.

I'm in the same boat as Matt - I'd be using this for recording, and having two layered amps with different OD and boost settings makes it next to impossible to come back at a later date and match your existing tracks without having those settings stored in a preset somewhere.
exactly! i think yamaha rushed this out and it is the 1st gen so they missed on a few things.Stompboy is towing the company line in a way and well...thats what salesmen do..
 

guitardr

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
970
You have to use a pair of proper insert cables to use both effect loops one for each 'channel'.
Each of those two cables are a single 1/4" stereo plug (tip.ring.sleeve) on one end that split into a pair of 1/4" mono (tip.sleeve) plugs.

You can plug the THR USB cable into your computer and edit the settings to the effects loops to be serial or parallel as well as choose booster settings, gate and reverb etc for each channel. I'd check into the loop and gate settings to possibly remedy your situation.
Long ago I addressed the TRS to mono cabling snag in this thread after speaking to Yamaha - California & Sweetwater's techs. Glad that others are sleuthing it out; hopefully Yamaha will do something about the vague descriptions in the owner's manual on Page 19.
 

randombastage

Member
Messages
3,693
I wonder how many people who think this amp is the result of a mistake actually have one or played it for more than a few minutes in a store.

I've got one and it sounds great and doesn't seem ill conceived or rushed or lacking anything a number of famous higher priced good amps have.
 

Wirezz

Member
Messages
880
I wonder how many people who think this amp is the result of a mistake actually have one or played it for more than a few minutes in a store.

I've got one and it sounds great and doesn't seem ill conceived or rushed or lacking anything a number of famous higher priced good amps have.
It lacks a million buttons and knobs that we all know all good modelers should have.
The THR is a grandpa's idea of a modeler and I love it so far.
 

crispsandwich

Member
Messages
393
I wonder how many people who think this amp is the result of a mistake actually have one or played it for more than a few minutes in a store.

I've got one and it sounds great and doesn't seem ill conceived or rushed or lacking anything a number of famous higher priced good amps have.
This.

It's the best amp I've ever played (that includes various valve amps, Kemper and Axe II). It sounds and feels incredible.
 

Barquentine

Member
Messages
1,891
Yes, that defense was bizarre. I like stompboy, but sometimes you see people defending a bad decision - either because it's their job or they're invested themselves in DEFENDING THE PRODUCT so much - that it makes you wonder what they are thinking.

The Yamaha decision to make this a REAL amp, by gosh, and real amps don't have presets, you know went way too far. You have a digital amp with a custom built computer interface, and you can't even store presets inside the computer program? Forget about theoretically cluttering up an amp panel with preset buttons or LED displays - this is just setting data stored on a computer somewhere that could send that data directly to the amp - the same way the knobs on the amp send the data to the amp and control the parameters. The THR5/10 series did it, so it's not like it's some advanced alien technology that Yamaha couldn't master. It was, instead, part of a ill conceived "let's make this so real amp like that people will forget it's digital" plan that went way too far.

And to head off the inevitable "but that means you need to have a computer connected that's not like a real amp!!!" defense against my suggestion, yamaha made the decision to require you to hook up to that same computer and program to just switch between OD and reverb types. So it's not like they're anti computer purists by any means.

I'm in the same boat as Matt - I'd be using this for recording, and having two layered amps with different OD and boost settings makes it next to impossible to come back at a later date and match your existing tracks without having those settings stored in a preset somewhere.
So this amp isn't for you - so what ? move on. I don't need pre-sets but I don't spend time castigating other modelers that do have them. It is obvious that the folks that own and enjoy this amp don't care that it has no pre-sets. I still love my single channel Cornford tube amp and I don't get upset because it doesn't have multiple choices of pre and power amps.
 

jageya

Member
Messages
4,251
I made the same points very early in this thread. Yamaha really screwed the pooch with this amp from the get go. Bait and switch marketing scheme mixed with a design concept that that just screams created by out of touch suits in a corporate boardroom.

As I stated in my earlier posts, I'm a fan of Yamaha products, that is why I'm so dissapointed with them right now. Hopefully, they will pay attention to all the suggestions that were made to improve this range of amps.

Mark my words, there will be some great blowout deals to be had on this amp in the next six to twelve months.
i agree but still wouldnt buy it...i will wait for future yamaha thr combos
 
Messages
505
So this amp isn't for you - so what ? move on. I don't need pre-sets but I don't spend time castigating other modelers that do have them.
True, you just castigate people who would benefit from presets.

It's just a bad design decision: One that stems from style more than usability. They wanted to convey an attitude more than they wanted to be useful to the largest number of people. There is NO downside to offering the ability to load presets from a computer based editor. None. Zero. Instead, it would open up the amp to thousands of more players whose work is based in the studio and not on a stage, garage, or lounge chair. There are people who need to go back to the same sound they recorded weeks or months ago and Yamaha chose to ignore those people in order to retain the 'real amp' cred that seems to have worked on you. Great. Glad it fits your needs.

I've designed a lot of different things over the years, and never once have I wanted to leave out an important or expected feature to convey a stylistic attitude. Instead I've always tried to find ways to enhance usability and expand the number of people who could use it.
 
Messages
505
I don't think THR owners should take it personally. Think of it another way: some of us would love to buy a THR, because we know it has some great sounds. We just need to be able to duplicate those sounds in recordings, and it frustrates us that Yamaha expects us to jot every one of the possibly hundreds of sound combinations we might want to use down on a piece of paper because they wanted to, what, establish some sort of cred by leaving presets off? While still requiring a computer for reverb and boost selection?
Real amps require you to have a computer hooked up to select reverb and boost types. I know it's true, I read it on the internet.

Just thinking about that is one of the funniest things about this never ending brouhaha. They omitted even computer stored presets, which would require almost nothing new to implement (I'm sure they had pc based control interfaces during development, too), but then required a pc connection to change reverb or boost types - which could have been accomplished with just a few more switches or dials on the back of the amp.
 

jageya

Member
Messages
4,251
I agree....if the editor allows loading of ir's then it could allow presets as well if well thought out. Its a cool product for a start...and i await the next gen of this as well as the next gen of the "real" thr10 amps. Personally the price is not a value for the thr100 with its messed up effects loop and no presets and crap reverbs and no boost controls with presets as well. That me....Like i said, i like the concept and they likely dropped the ball on purpose to allow for gen 2 to pick up the slack maybe? Many companies do this. The thr10 units are a great value(used) and a great concept. Blackstar id260 and idcore40/100 and /150 to me are more intuitive and are well thought out-not perfect but we can see the newer idcore100/150(gen 2) with tweaker preamp settings and real guitar speakers-added effects-looper-real stereo effects loop and a larger cab.I have yet to try one and will likely buy one as i like my id260....the idcore 100 is what i am hoping yamaha will do with the thr10 series now....just amp up the size/watts....leave all else as is really..unless you want to combine all 3 thr10amps into 1 thr30,40,50,60 or even 100 type amp...Totally possible and would sell like crazy at a realistic price($499.99-599.99). Keeping the whole effects onboard and stereo thing. Maybe adding an effects loop and speaker out as well as usb audio..and if really crazy ir loading....but alas..this would kill the thr100 sales for sure.
 

randombastage

Member
Messages
3,693
You are being a bit disingenuous there I think....

Yes, true, 'Real amps' don't need to have a choice by editor made like the one you are talking about because real amps only have one type of reverb....one size spring tank or plate etc....

So, in the case of some on board effects, it seems Yamaha is being criticized out of both sides of the mouth ....'too many choices/options and not enough choices/options '.....

Somehow I think if Yamaha only included a single version of spring reverb the complaining would still be rationalized because what really has some people's panties in a twist is the original 'boom box' form factor wasn't simply made into a 30 watt size.

I think it's time for some people to realize this particular amp wasnt ever supposed to be the 30 watt combo box....so people using their wished-for-THR30watt' as a benchmark so they can declare Yamaha 'failed' in design or in their implementation is an indictment based on a false premise.


Real amps require you to have a computer hooked up to select reverb and boost types. I know it's true, I read it on the internet.

Just thinking about that is one of the funniest things about this never ending brouhaha. They omitted even computer stored presets, which would require almost nothing new to implement (I'm sure they had pc based control interfaces during development, too), but then required a pc connection to change reverb or boost types - which could have been accomplished with just a few more switches or dials on the back of the amp.
 
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jageya

Member
Messages
4,251
well....whatever. I am no yamaha fan boi but i have had their products over my time as a player. I know its not meant to be a combo....but now i think releasing a thr30 or 100 or similar will kill the head sales all together.I may be wrong or i may be right but its my view. I was excited to hear of a new thr release but after seeing what it actually was i lost interest. I mean really...if you are going to have so many tweaks and tone options on a modeling unit you ought to have presets period. And if you tout it as a stereo amp 2 sets of effects loops proper is expected. Cutting cost corners seems like what they did in both of those areas and yet charged too much in the end so in my view its a pass.....simple as that. Doesnt mean i wont look at the next gen thr to come whatever it will be...
 

spiral

Member
Messages
1,001
I understand the criticism about no presets: from a market perspective the THR100 is kind of "middling" as a product. It has all of these options with tube types, gain levels, cab sim, etc. So it's kind of a modeller, and kind of a standard amp. It doesn't know what it wants to be when it grows up. I think it would be easily solved by pushing it one way or the other: remove the tube selection and class types on the back to push it towards a "tube amp", making those only selectable via software, and reduce the price ... or push it towards modeller by adding presets, tuner, USB output, and increase the price. One thing that drives me crazy about presets and physical knobs is not knowing the true amp state. If it was foot-switch-only presets, that disabled when you disconnected, that might solve it. I would love someone to release a simplified solid state amp that sounds as good as the THR100, but having tried a few, Yamaha is the best game in town, ATM, IMO. A THR combo would be great, but it doesn't exist so it's this or nothing.

For me personally, I bought it because I wanted a trouble- and noise-free amp that could have a few voices: sometimes sparkly Fender tones with just a little bit of breakup, sometimes a really clean and responsive jazz amp where you can hear everything in the string. Having 2 amps in one for stereo was the clincher for me. It does all of that and I've been pretty happy. I'm still on the fence about selling my tube amp but I also haven't played it at all since the THR100 arrived.

One thing that really surprised me was how great the "Solid" setting sounds. I've played with that a bunch. With the gain maxed, you can get a fantastic, full-range, clean sound.

Another random observation: The way the THR100 reacts is a bit like both a tube and solid state amp. You can get the texture and overtones of a tube amp by playing with the gain types, but also it seems to react really quickly so you can really "hear into" the string ... whereas a tube amp tends to be a little more slow or blurry ("syrupy" some people say). So I feel like there is more clarity and accuracy because of the solid-state brain but also the harmonics of a tube amp ... which is all great by me.
 

randombastage

Member
Messages
3,693
Jageya, I don't know what is broken on your THR 100HD amp's effects loop.... but on mine it works perfectly.

I use the Helix in one loop for effects only when I use THR100 as the 'whole amp' and I use that same loop with Helix full modeling presets bypassing the THR preamp stage so Helix has a 'THR power amp' and I use the other THR loop for an AxeFx, again the THR becomes the power amp to the modeler...and sounds glorious!

Without touching a single cable I have access to any of the 3 'amps' or combining 2 of them....

And by the way, the THR100, as the full amp, sounds just as great as AxeFx or Helix providing the preamp where the 'amp types' are similar. JCM 800ish, Plexyish, AC15ish etc.

You should have someone look at your THR and fix the broken effects loop you keep using as an 'example' because you are missing out on lots of fun!
 
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jageya

Member
Messages
4,251
Many companies purposely dumb down gear so they have something to release with gen 2 and 3....it happens all the time.
 

scook

Supporting Member
Messages
3,451
The USB is already there, begging to be used for recording.
It doesn't work that way. You can't add recording functionality if it wasn't there to begin with. Same reason the Kemper doesn't have recording functionality even though it has a USB port.
 

randombastage

Member
Messages
3,693
I would love preset capability for the reasons stated but I'm not going to call it a failure, or assign 'greedy motivations' to Yamaha simply because the THR100 doesn't have the exact inventory of my preferred bells and whistles.

They said "Hey look! We made a great new THR type amp"

So I tried it and they weren't lying. It is great.


John Suhr makes great amps and I could point out something I would prefer he change about every one of them.
However, I won't be trying to suggest he failed or is too greedy to have made them 'the way I think they should be'.

Is THR100 what they said it was? Yes I think it definitely is.
Did they trick me or take advantage of me because it isn't 'more'?
Of course not! I'd have to be much more important to the world for them to owe me such reverence.
 




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