NFL Week 17

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Craig Walker, Dec 26, 2017.


  1. chrisjw5

    chrisjw5 Member

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    I don't know that it matters, from this metric: do you want a year-in, year-out contender, or do you want a shot at a title?

    You don't need a transcendent QB to win a Super Bowl. It's entirely possible to manage yourself to a hot run. Cam did that.

    If you want a shot every year - let's NOT (edit) even go Pats level because, like it or not, Brady is the GOAT - you need a transcendent QB. And there are few of those. Cam is not one.

    Levels of QB:

    1. Brady
    1a. Rodgers (might be level one, but GB isn't as committed to giving him weapons as Kraft is)

    2. YOU CAN WIN
    Roethlisberger (LITT, EIWIL - long in the tooth, enjoy it while it lasts)
    Brees (LITT)
    Ryan
    Wilson

    3. YOU-CAN-GET-ON-A-RUN-BUT-THEY-AIN'T-GREAT-AND-THEY'LL-BREAK-YOUR-HEART
    Flacco
    Rivers
    A. Smith
    Cousins
    Manning
    Newton
    Dalton
    Stafford
    Mariotta

    Incomplete - these can all be legit #1s, time will tell:
    Wentz
    Goff
    Garoppolo
    Watson

    Everybody else is trash and you'd best have a Plan B for anyone not in Groups 1 or 2. Like Baltimore's defense making Flacco a $100M QB
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  2. time2kill

    time2kill Member

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    I've been saying the Colts should replace Chuck Pagano for 4 years now. He was fired after yesterday's game.

    I felt bad for him. He is a nice guy. He wanted to do a good job and wasn't given the tools. I wish him good luck in the future. :oops:

    Who would be a good replacement?
    :dunno

    New GM this year. New Coach next year. Andrew Luck's status is still up in the air. Frank Gore is great, but he is getting old. He came to Indy to get a ring. That doesnt appear to be happening next year. He'll probably bail on the Colts. A whole new system? They have so many needs. O-line, defensive back field, a pass rusher, etc.

    Well at least the playoffs are on. :banana

    Not gonna get anything done on the weekends for a while. :drown
     
  3. bluwoodsman

    bluwoodsman Member

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    Where's the guy who finished 2nd in QBR rating this year to Wentz, ahead of Brady?
    :)
     
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  4. BigAl

    BigAl Supporting Member

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    I was glad the Bengals could knock out the Ravens and help the Bills get in (although it definitely hurts that Cincy's last two wins moved them up to #12 in the draft). Waiting for official word that Lewis is not returning but now reading that after Lewis and Brown met this morning there is no decision yet!?! If they bring him back I am officially revoking my Bengals fandom.
     
  5. John Hurtt

    John Hurtt Supporting Member

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    Ownership has to cut him loose, IMO....there are too many Cinci fans that feel the same way you do.
     
  6. chrisjw5

    chrisjw5 Member

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    You mean Case Hostettler?

    I wanna see him come from down 17 in the 4th in the playoffs, then I'll believe he's more than Brad Johnson.
     
  7. Uncle Bob

    Uncle Bob Member

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    I'm pretty sure that has never mattered. Just look at the last few years for evidence.
     
  8. mge80

    mge80 Member

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    If I were you, I'd be much more worried about Nick Foles than I would about "Case Hostettler" or Brad Johnson. Personally, I think with the Vikings defense, he won't need to come back from "down 17 in the 4th".
     
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  9. más_fuerte

    más_fuerte Supporting Member

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    Yeah, it blows my mind that this thing hasn't been decided one way or another yet. Classic Bengals, man. Meanwhile, other teams are out interviewing HC candidates and we're sitting on our hands trying to decide if Marvin ****ing Lewis is going to stay for ANOTHER season? The Bengals organization doesn't deserve this fan base.
     
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  10. chrisjw5

    chrisjw5 Member

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    No one was winning with that mess. Former GM Grigson was a Philly guy who, IIRC, was involved in the Chip Kelly mess. He never had a coherent plan and Pagano was left with the refuse.

    That offense was predicated on Luck/Hilton downfield throws pulling extra players out of the box and putting others in man coverage. Once that fell apart, nothing was going to make it better. (The Giants offense was similar, it was predicated on OBJ beating 1-on-1 coverage downfield consistently, forcing other teams to double him). I think Pagano is a better coordinator than HC, but the love-child of Vince Lombardi and Bill Walsh wasn't saving that mess.

    IMO, Indy has to assume Luck is done, burn it down and rebuild.

    I really think a lot of success comes down to ownership. Haslam and Irsay are two of the bigger messes in the NFL. Dallas did well when Jerrah's kid was able to sideline him for a while and rebuild.
     
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  11. chrisjw5

    chrisjw5 Member

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    Foles? Anything from here on out is gravy. I've written this season off as a beautiful 12 week fever dream of what could have been.

    I don't even mind driving down in two weeks to watch them likely lose in the playoffs - Carson has me in the black on selling my unused season tickets on Stub Hub.

    As to Keenum, I don't doubt Minnesota is a serious title threat - my Case Hostettler comment was in response to the wink-wink busting of my not rating him as a top QB. Until he proves otherwise, he's Brad Johnson. He's Jeff Hostettler. He's Doug Williams. Until he proves otherwise.

    Does anyone think that Case Keenum is an elite QB right now? He might prove it. He might. I want to see it before I anoint him.
     
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  12. chrisjw5

    chrisjw5 Member

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    They do not.

    This really doesn't even have to be a 'does he deserve another year' thing. Simply, there is a shelf life for coaches with one team. After a while, the players start tuning out the rah-rah - even on good coaches.

    I thought, and still think, Andy Reid is a fine coach. Above average. I'll always love him for what he gave Philadelphia: hope.

    But it was time for him to move on. They had tuned him out. It happens. Same with Marvin. It's not impossible to think Marvin will take one last job and make a playoff run, maybe even win a game.
     
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  13. bluwoodsman

    bluwoodsman Member

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    Well, Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl! And Johnson didn't even play much in college. Keenum set multiple NCAA records in college.

    I think Keenum's a battler but a system guy. Don't think he can succeed anywhere, but he fits Shurmur like a glove and seems to have been able to hold back his more damaging impulses to make a play when they aren't easy to make. He's Favre like in that regard but doesn't have Favre's arm. Granted his ability to stay out of bad situations is a lot easier to do with the D behind him. I'd be surprised that D would allow the get the team behind by that much.
     
  14. John Hurtt

    John Hurtt Supporting Member

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    Shame if true, but you could be right.
     
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  15. chrisjw5

    chrisjw5 Member

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    Which is exactly my point. Case Keenum is a flash-in-the-pan. Like Brad Johnson. If you're not a Tampa fan, and you saw Gruden get inducted into the ring of honor last week, your reaction to Brad Johnson wasn't "wow! Brad freaking Johnson", it was "Hey Gruden brought his local Toyota dealer onto the podium as a paid placement for Toyotathon". (and lemme tell ya about Jon's Toyota dealer, he's the best Toyota dealer in America)

    And good for him. But I've seen him suck in too many places in too many different situations to think he's going to be the next Kurt Warner. He'll be 30 in February. No one is building a team around Case. He won't even go into his own summer camp as the starter.

    And I don't mean Vikings camp, I mean Lake Winnepogoee in June for the flag football team with the 12 year olds.
     
  16. más_fuerte

    más_fuerte Supporting Member

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    Lewis was scheduled to have a press conference today at 12:00 EST. So far, it hasn't started yet. Hopefully we'll find out then.

    There are reports floating around that Bengals owner Mike Brown is afraid to have to search for a new coach because that person might want to change too many things in the organization.
     
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  17. BigAl

    BigAl Supporting Member

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    Well said and it really goes to show what a disaster the organization is. Paul Brown is probably in constant rotation in his grave seeing how Mike and his kids run this franchise. Lewis has had more than enough time and it is way overdue for a totally clean slate. To bring back Lewis as the head coach (or even to bump him up to the front office and promote one of the existing weak coordinators) says the Browns accept this mediocrity to go on indefinitely. Some say be careful what you wish for as with a new coach they could go back to the pre-Lewis dark ages. I lived through those seasons and at this point what really is the difference (they were not winning in the playoffs then or now)? Bring in a new voice, spend some money in free agency, and maybe you can have a team that can make the playoffs and actually do something once they are there.
     
  18. Dirty_Tones

    Dirty_Tones Supporting Member

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    LOL@ Philly.
     
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  19. bluwoodsman

    bluwoodsman Member

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    Now don't make me wish for the vikings to travel to Philly later this month so Case can chew up da Iggles! (or maybe that's all part of your plan). :)
     
  20. más_fuerte

    más_fuerte Supporting Member

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    Just finished listening to Marvin's press conference. No decision has been made yet about whether or not he'll be coming back in 2018, but it definitely sounded like a real possibility.

    The fact that both Hue Jackson and Marvin Lewis could return in 2018 is truly mind-boggling.
     
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