NGD Countdown to Ian Anderson Standard

[pfrischmann]

Hi Paul, What I meant by my post was, that, based on this line from your original post ...



...I thought that maybe you were pulling our chain. I mean after Satoshi's saga, who would be so eager to send money to IA and really expect a quick turnaround? I thought the line about paying to bump someone out of line was funny stuff. Made me laugh and then I thought wow, is that something that really happens?

That's all, thought it was a gag. If you really did order a guitar, I hope you love it and it's here before you know it. Cheers,

To be

^^^...2012?!? I missed that.

That makes it even more messed up. Moved ahead in line and have still been waiting 4 years?
[/QUOTEk
To be clear IIRC. In October 2012. Ian wasn't in the position he is in now. Things were taking longer but people were getting guitars pretty regularly. Ian wasn't taking new orders at the time as he felt he might have problems meeting his schedule. He had a customer that was looking to get out of the build he had commissioned and Ian asked me if I wanted to buy his build slot. The customer had been waiting two years and Ian estimated it would be another 18mo more or less. I had no idea who else is/was waiting or for how long. what was stated above was our agreement. I did not try to buy my way to the head of the line nor did Ian suggest that was the case. I figured the date would slip a bit as that seems to be my experience with customer builders, just not this far.

I hope that clarifies a few things.

 

[pfrischmann]

To be fair, I was told three years, not eight years and 3 months. Quite frankly, although I think the guitar is great, had I known it would be 8 years, I wouldn't have done the deal at all. These builders need to realize this is not the mid 15th century, we are not the Italian elite with money and time to spare for Michaelangelo to finish the commissioned piece, and that if you give a buyer a deadline that you should stand by your word/deal and deliver the guitar, not excuses.

Hi Jim!
So that there is no confusion. Jim is not talking about Ian Anderson but another builder.

 

[noley]

Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense.

Best wishes Paul...

 

[pfrischmann]

Just read @Scumback Speakers comment and it made me think that most of us are missing a big consideration here. I'll get philosophical, so hang with me guys

A couple things up front. First of all, most of us simply would not deal with anybody as unreliable as Ian. Secondly, it is important that threads like this stay available so that folks looking into Ian's guitars can get a good idea of what they are truly looking at in terms of getting a guitar made by him along any timeline.

Now this thread is certainly not the first one where someone admits they completely knew about the delivery time issues with Ian, BUT they ordered the guitar and put down money anyway. This is where I think we are possibly missing a significant consideration.

I'm sure we can all think of a time we saw an actress/model/SI Bikini model/etc. woman, a car, a house, whatever, and we literally stopped in our tracks and were like WHOA! Sure we had seen lots and lots of actresses/models/SI girls/etc., cars, houses, whatever, but this one melted your mind. In most of those cases we knew there was no way in hell we were ever going to be able to talk to a woman like that, buy that car, or own that house. Point is that for some reason this thing made our brain say "THAT is the BEST, I WANT THAT above all else!"

Now let's talk guitars. There are a number of amazing builders. Many guys in this subforum own incredible guitars made by these builders. Truth is, if we talk about these guitars in the General Guitars section, we have to deal with all the TGPers happy to insult our profession, our mental function, our life values, etc. They hate the guitars we all love. But all that really matters is that given all the great builders, a specific builder makes you go WHOA! And out comes the wallet.

@Scumback Speakers comments that the guitar was "everything I hoped for". Now in my examples above, I talked about things that blew us away, but we knew we could never have. I mean sure I'd like to own a Bugatti Veyron, but the tires, oil change, and insurance would likely put me in the poor house. Ahh but the guitar of my dreams, compared to those other things, IT is the one dream I can manage to have!

For those that are aware of Ian's reputation and still order a guitar from him, it says that his guitars make them go WHOA! And being able to have "everything I hoped for" may just be a reason to put up with a crazy long wait time. In a sense it's not about Ian, they can ignore that part, it's really about having a dream guitar built exactly like they want it. From that angle, I can "understand" why they put up with the pain. I would never deal with his shenanigans, but as long as they go into with their eyes wide open, it's all good if they get the guitar of their dreams in the end.

Of course I could totally be wrong

I think I did this earlier but I want to make sure the information in here is accurate.

1. As the time I ordered the guitar Ian was regularly delivering product but was starting to run a little behind and admitted it to me. Nobody was waiting the exceedingly long times we are seeing now and AFAIK nobody was complaining. I did my research as best I could before putting down a deposit. I'ts very easy to jump into these threads 5 years latter with all kinds of condescending wisdom but it's not really realistic.

2. Scumback is talking about another builder entirely. His point is that some builders are good at their art but troubled with the business side. We shared a similar experience with a similar builder, not Ian.

 

[noley]

...I'ts very easy to jump into these threads 5 years latter with all kinds of condescending wisdom but it's not really realistic...

Agreed, but you shared the story of your ridiculous wait and had to expect such responses. Perhaps even took consolation in the many comments of 'support and sympathy'.

It's even easier when the issue is so obviously clear: IA (and EP) have no regard for their customers beyond the deposit they demand in advance of a build. 4 years to build a guitar??? It's a fre@kin guitar! In four years you can complete an enlistment or a college degree. In four years my mother-in-law cranked out 5 kids! They built the Empire State Building in 400 days!

I like to follow the "What's on your workbench?" thread. Those are accomplished and personable builders not only creating beautiful guitars, but doing it so efficiently they have time to share photos with the rest of us!

This kind of turnaround would never fly in my line of work, and probably not yours either. 4 years to build a guitar is insane. You could have gone to lutherie school, completed an apprenticeship and built your own guitar in that time.

 

[narad]

Agreed, but you shared the story of your ridiculous wait and had to expect such responses. Perhaps even took consolation in the many comments of 'support and sympathy'.

It's even easier when the issue is so obviously clear: IA (and EP) have no regard for their customers beyond the deposit they demand in advance of a build. 4 years to build a guitar??? It's a fre@kin guitar! In four years you can complete an enlistment or a college degree. In four years my mother-in-law cranked out 5 kids! They built the Empire State Building in 400 days!

I like to follow the "What's on your workbench?" thread. Those are accomplished and personable builders not only creating beautiful guitars, but doing it so efficiently they have time to share photos with the rest of us!

This kind of turnaround would never fly in my line of work, and probably not yours either. 4 years to build a guitar is insane. You could have gone to lutherie school, completed an apprenticeship and built your own guitar in that time.

You seem to be confusing build time with wait time. Man, isn't it ridiculous that it takes 3 hours to take a photo at the DMV?? I can take a photo on my phone in < 5 seconds.

 

[beorn]

This kind of turnaround would never fly in my line of work, and probably not yours either. 4 years to build a guitar is insane. You could have gone to lutherie school, completed an apprenticeship and built your own guitar in that time.

There was no way for the OP to know the wait time would be this long in 2012.

The fact that the wait time has been this long is certainly not the OP's fault.

If people try to blame the OP for anything, what it means, IMO, is that they have not paid adequate attention to what the OP said or the chronological context of this build.

I like to follow the "What's on your workbench?" thread. Those are accomplished and personable builders not only creating beautiful guitars, but doing it so efficiently they have time to share photos with the rest of us!

If a year from now somebody complains that one of them took an order in 2013 with a two-year delivery date, and still hasn't delivered the guitar, what will you say then?

There is simply no way to know based on current photos or current builds what a builder has not done, or how seriously a builder is taking deadlines. Echopark routinely posts photos of new builds on Instagram, but we can all read what is happening behind the scenes to Lenport.

You seem to be confusing build time with wait time.

Yes, there are numerous builders with great reputations who require a wait time of multiple years, such as Michael Stevens. Sometimes they take quite a bit longer than they predicted to deliver on their builds for various reasons.

Ian is an extraordinary case because on multiple occasions he has made predictions that were off by multiple years, and involved multiple broken promises that had flimsy excuses attached. In this case he has made more predictions and promises, so the thread will document what actually happens in a way that won't be deleted in future and be researched by future potential buyers. If he keeps his promises, we'll know; if he doesn't, we'll know that too.

 

[noley]

I'm not being critical of the OP. I'm being critical of the builder. Sheesh.

 

[Jazzandmore]

I think I did this earlier but I want to make sure the information in here is accurate.

1. As the time I ordered the guitar Ian was regularly delivering product but was starting to run a little behind and admitted it to me. Nobody was waiting the exceedingly long times we are seeing now and AFAIK nobody was complaining. I did my research as best I could before putting down a deposit. I'ts very easy to jump into these threads 5 years latter with all kinds of condescending wisdom but it's not really realistic.

2. Scumback is talking about another builder entirely. His point is that some builders are good at their art but troubled with the business side. We shared a similar experience with a similar builder, not Ian.

No worries, that’s why I said in my post that I could be completely wrong. My intent was not to be condescending, my intent was the opposite. To say that when you find something really special, then it may be worth th wait or hassle.

I met Ian one day while hanging out in Lentz’s shop. Seemed like a nice guy and he commented that his shop was in the same complex. Maybe this was 2012?

 

[Scumback Speakers]

2. Scumback is talking about another builder entirely. His point is that some builders are good at their art but troubled with the business side. We shared a similar experience with a similar builder, not Ian.

Paul is correct, but they're both in So Cal about 100 miles apart. The reality is that I recommended the builder, who also did my Fool SG replica in just over two years from a 63 SG Jr hulk my wife bought me. Finished guitar here:

Based on that build time 3 years for an LP replica seemed reasonable, and Paul put down a deposit in January 2007. In October of 2009, Paul said that there had been no significant work done on the guitar, and wanted to know if I could do something. To save my reputation, and not kick the ass of the builder, I bought Paul out of the guitar. Then I waited another 5.5 years for it to be delivered, after multiple excuses, delays, BS, etc.

Sure, the finished guitar is great, Paul picked out the top, I put in real PAF's, an old wiring harness with Sprague caps, and Historic plastic, Grover tuners, yada yada yada.

But let's face it, if you're told three years and it turns into 8 years and three months, there is no faith in that builder any longer, for obvious reasons. Yes, I'm happy with the guitar, but I went through a lot of crap to get it, which wasn't what I signed up for, nor to buy Paul out of the guitar build. But it was the right thing to do, so I did it. Finished guitar here below.

In hindsight, which is always 20/20, had I known it would be this type of saga, I would have bought a 59 RI used, sent it to Historic makeovers, and gotten my guitar in less than two years, or maybe less.

Paul, thanks for picking out the wonderful top of this guitar, the results were awesome, but the timeframe was nothing short of disgusting!

Keep that in mind if any of you commission a guitar from a builder who's running "a little behind".

 

[pfrischmann]

Man that guitar looks awesome!
All I wanted was a good Les Paul style guitar, since 2007. 10 years later....LoL

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Man that guitar looks awesome!
All I wanted was a good Les Paul style guitar, since 2007. 10 years later....LoL

Right, sadly you're still waiting, which I do not find to be acceptable considering the first builder also has a business servicing guitars and amps, which provides a modicum of understanding/plausibility. However, I don't believe that's something Ian can claim. Let me be clear, I think Ian is great, I've known him for 15 years...but there are limits.

 

[Stevo57]

Something I don’t understand Jim. What is great about Ian? There seems to be a sort of veil of acceptance between Ian and Gabe from other builders and suppliers etc. For some reason they get a pass when it comes to public posting. Maybe I’m wrong but I’ve seen it first hand on here and Facebook, Instagram etc. I feel fortunate to have dodged the bullet and not ordered anything from either. Came close with some pickups and a neck from Ian.

 

[Bogner]

But let's face it, if you're told three years and it turns into 8 years and three months...

8 years?!!! You could have 3 ex wives in that amount of time...

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Something I don’t understand Jim. What is great about Ian?

Ian is a genuinely nice guy, but obviously completion deadlines and updates are a problem. The guy I got my replica from is a nice guy, too...but he can't prioritize his work properly, or meet deadlines, either. I can't explain it, Steve, they just aren't too keen on doing what they say they'll do in the time frame they put on themselves or tell their clients. Go figure.

 

['59_Standard]

Ian is a genuinely nice guy, but obviously completion deadlines and updates are a problem. The guy I got my replica from is a nice guy, too...but he can't prioritize his work properly, or meet deadlines, either. I can't explain it, Steve, they just aren't too keen on doing what they say they'll do in the time frame they put on themselves or tell their clients. Go figure.

Thats a trait a lot of people who screw people over have. A charismatic manner. This truly isn't what nice people are, but people still suggest these folk are that. They ain't.

When you look at people like Ron Thorn or John Suhr you can see the extreme of where theses others are failing miserably and are actually worlds apart from being, nice.

 

[pfrischmann]

Update
15 days until first checkpoint. Everything should be done but final finishing (top coat and polish).
30 days to shipment from Ian to me...5 days T/- shipping time.

 

[Jazzandmore]

8 years?!!! You could have 3 ex wives in that amount of time...

Up in post #62 I pointed out that my uncle did have 3 ex-wives in that time

 

[Member 115616]

Ian has been "assembling" the guitar he owes me for over two years. i think it has been 5 years now since he took money for the deposit. Now Ian isn't even lying to me, he just isn't responding at all.

 

['59_Standard]

Some of this stuff is hard to fathom, beyond comprehension of how long it can be drawn out - like clients are in some time-warp. Its more a case of a count-up to an IA guitar than a countdown...