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No Stage Projection is AWESOME!!

Messages
3,765
Played a gig this past weekend that is NOTORIOUS for volume issues. Think of a room the size of a gymnasium with 30ft ceilings!

Almost every band that walks in there has problems and they are always complaining. My band, on the other hand had no issues at all.

I contribute this to the fact that I no longer have a blaring Marshall stack BEHIND me pointed out a the audience. Even when you angle cabs, or cross fire them, there is little you can do to prevent that harsh frequency range blaring off the stage. To a casual listener, this can easily be confused with "too loud" because of how..well, loud it is, but also how harsh it would sound.

With a couple of focused monitors pointing right at my face, I had incredible volume on stage for ME to hear, but you couldn't even tell it was on 5 feet in front of the stage! This means that all my sound was being replicated through the PA system only which allowed us to play at exactly the volume our drummer set for us.

Thanks AxeFx! You're making me more professional everyday!
 

_pete_

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,706
It is better, isn't it?

I started using my powered EV (ELX112P) as a monitor and eliminated the backline also. I can now hear myself perfectly on stage and the FOH sound is cleaner, better, and consistent all around the room.
I'll never go back.
 

Fractal Audio

Member
Messages
1,228
It doesn't look as cool though. I think there is a market for fake backlines. Make them from foam or something to keep them light.
 

barhrecords

Member
Messages
1,523
It doesn't look as cool though. I think there is a market for fake backlines. Make them from foam or something to keep them light.
I agree.

I was messing around with balsa wood trying to make a fake half-stack backline but didn't get it looking like anything decent.
 
Messages
3,765
It doesn't look as cool though. I think there is a market for fake backlines. Make them from foam or something to keep them light.

HA! seriously. Though, I think the whole amps behind image thing is our guitar heads only. Audiences don't seem to care about that stuff as much anymore.

BUT! What I will tell you is that I've already got plans in the mix to spend some cash on some special ground lighting to put behind me! That would have much more impact anyways, and I now that I don't have a 4x12 in my trunk anymore, I've got lots of room to bring stuff along!

I agree.

I was messing around with balsa wood trying to make a fake half-stack backline but didn't get it looking like anything decent.
The best way would probably to buy real Marshall 4x12s empty and chop off the first 2 inches of the cab and create easel stands. but all that would be lots of work for something sorta silly.
 

zentman

Member
Messages
1,347
I do this but I just got on at a place that actually allows me to use my floors as mains behind me. I stood in the house and they sound fabulous from any angle.

I remember doing a place much like the one you describe above with all kinds of combos and cabs a few years ago. I would get a great stage sound then go out front and razor blades would shred my ears. I had a very difficult time making it sound good at various angles in the house.
 
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Messages
1,681
Played a gig this past weekend that is NOTORIOUS for volume issues. Think of a room the size of a gymnasium with 30ft ceilings!

Almost every band that walks in there has problems and they are always complaining. My band, on the other hand had no issues at all.

I contribute this to the fact that I no longer have a blaring Marshall stack BEHIND me pointed out a the audience. Even when you angle cabs, or cross fire them, there is little you can do to prevent that harsh frequency range blaring off the stage. To a casual listener, this can easily be confused with "too loud" because of how..well, loud it is, but also how harsh it would sound.

With a couple of focused monitors pointing right at my face, I had incredible volume on stage for ME to hear, but you couldn't even tell it was on 5 feet in front of the stage! This means that all my sound was being replicated through the PA system only which allowed us to play at exactly the volume our drummer set for us.

Thanks AxeFx! You're making me more professional everyday!
Good on you, been doing it for 3yrs now with stellar results. I played a venu this saturday that was rectangular and very reflective walls. With a conventional backline it would have much more challenging.
 
Messages
1,681
It doesn't look as cool though. I think there is a market for fake backlines. Make them from foam or something to keep them light.
Aside from Metal concerts...no sure that's true anymore. I guy walked up to me between sets this weekend and asked how do you like your Fractal? It sounds amazing out front!

Rewind 2 yrs ago, and the coment would have been, WTF where are Tubz man?
 

Scott Peterson

TGP Co-Founder and Administrator
Staff member
Messages
37,734
Been running direct over 5 years now... same conclusions as Tyler.

Once you 'get' it right... it's addicting. You roll into the next room, it's still right. You roll into an outdoor festival... still right. It's almost like cheating. I see the struggle from so many other guitarists looking for consistency and lugging all that heavy stuff around... I pop up the same essential rig I've been using for 5+ years... and it's just 'right'. Every time.

I love it.
 

stratotone

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,519
I keep my Kemper on top of a Marshall 4x12 for one band because the Marshall cab is carried in the band trailer, so they bring it anyways. Monitor is facing me, Marshall is off... makes life much easier for the sound guy, because he can actually set the PA without my marshall blasting some poor suckers in the face. ;)
 

strat56

Member
Messages
1,168
What will you guys do if you ever have to play a gig and not be able to go thru the FOH? I'm curious to know because that's the primary thing holding me back from modeling, most of the gigs I play are small to mid sized clubs and we don't always mic the instruments.
 

Scott Peterson

TGP Co-Founder and Administrator
Staff member
Messages
37,734
What will you guys do if you ever have to play a gig and not be able to go thru the FOH? I'm curious to know because that's the primary thing holding me back from modeling, most of the gigs I play are small to mid sized clubs and we don't always mic the instruments.
You can use any good FRFR solution (ie. powered wedge, powered monitor) as a backline. BUT... You'll find that using the PA with the vocals adds a TON more spread and you do NOT need to jack your levels of the guitar into the PA. The end result is much less stage volume, vocals do not lose any clarity in the mix (and honestly are clearer in the mix because the guitars are not blasting into the vocal mic's).

I have worked with many bands that 'only use the PA for vocals, and maybe some kick' now but once they try putting my guitar in the PA (even in smaller rooms) it just works better for everyone. Stage volumes are manageable, yet I get to blast myself with as much guitar as I want. LOL. ;)

It is an absolutely different paradigm than carrying a room with a guitar amp.
 

stratotone

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,519
I can't remember the last time I played a gig and just ran vocals through the PA... even for a small room and low volume, running a modelling amp through the mains is the best practice.

Even a real tube amp setup isn't going to get the dispersion going through a PA is. You'll be just right for a small percentage of the crowd, too loud for others, and not loud enough for everyone else if you aren't in the PA.
 

Scott Peterson

TGP Co-Founder and Administrator
Staff member
Messages
37,734
I can't remember the last time I played a gig and just ran vocals through the PA... even for a small room and low volume, running a modelling amp through the mains is the best practice.

Even a real tube amp setup isn't going to get the dispersion going through a PA is. You'll be just right for a small percentage of the crowd, too loud for others, and not loud enough for everyone else if you aren't in the PA.
I agree with you, but find that sort of 'vocals only in the PA' for smaller rooms is essentially the norm with most all the bands in my region. Folks just grew up with it.

When I think about it in the conventional sense, it does hold some logic. Loud amp on stage + in the PA = crazy volumes on stage (loud amp) and feeding into the vocal monitors via the vocal mic's. But; when you consider a low volume stage as under discussion here with zero loud amps on stage facing the crowd and facing back toward the performer and *away* from the vocal mic's... it starts to make sense to even the drummer. LOL. ;) :D
 






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