Ok let me open up an old can of worms.

[Glass Onion]

That has been to death and back a few hundred times.

I have my new Keeley 30ms running into my avatar rig. Splitter sending wet to treble channel high input and the dry to the other high input.

Nailing early Van Halen. Using an SG no less.

So much of his early tone was in the reverb and delay. And the hands of course and the crazy sense of swing.
This is the closest I have ever gotten. So close in fact I no longer am gonna chase that tone.
Not sure how much has to do with the doubling effect but man it is there.
That is all.

 

[Glass Onion]

**** I knew someone would ask. I have no clue how to put up photos let alone audio. I will try to figure it out.

I have a studio built in my house and still trying to get off my ass and get stuff running.
The room is 19x24 and 20 feet tall. That may be helping the sound as well.

 

[Bluplirst]

Ya had to be there.

 

[Turi]

**** I knew someone would ask. I have no clue how to put up photos let alone audio. I will try to figure it out.

I have a studio built in my house and still trying to get off my ass and get stuff running.
The room is 19x24 and 20 feet tall. That may be helping the sound as well.

Photobucket.com for photos.
SoundCloud.com for audio.
YouTube.com for vids.

Get to it because nobody believes you mate

 

[Rumble]

**** I knew someone would ask. I have no clue how to put up photos let alone audio. I will try to figure it out.

I have a studio built in my house and still trying to get off my ass and get stuff running.
The room is 19x24 and 20 feet tall. That may be helping the sound as well.

You're not alone, I've never taken the time, or made the effort, to put up soundclips or videos (I can do photos though!). Someday, I will get into the 21st Century and put something up.

 

[twoheadedboy]

Um, clips?

Yup, I'd like to hear it. For the early VH sound, all the reverb was post-mic, wasn't it? Dry sound panned to one side, wet on the other. That sounds nothing like running a reverb into the front of an amp.

I say this all the time, but I think it bears repeating: trying to get the exact guitar sound from a mixed and mastered studio recording to come out of your guitar amp's speakers is a waste of time. The microphone, mic pre, and the rest of the mixing and mastering signal chain have a huge impact on the sound. Unless you're going to try to replicate the entire signal chain, you should never expect to nail the sound from a record.

 

[NorCal_Val]

Yup, I'd like to hear it. For the early VH sound, all the reverb was post-mic, wasn't it? Dry sound panned to one side, wet on the other. That sounds nothing like running a reverb into the front of an amp.

I say this all the time, but I think it bears repeating: trying to get the exact guitar sound from a mixed and mastered studio recording to come out of your guitar amp's speakers is a waste of time. The microphone, mic pre, and the rest of the mixing and mastering signal chain have a huge impact on the sound. Unless you're going to try to replicate the entire signal chain, you should never expect to nail the sound from a record.

I've always thought that on the "dry" side guitar on VH1 there was some "room" reverb present.
But that big ol' plate reverb on the opposite side was a HUGE part of that tone.

 

[twoheadedboy]

I've always thought that on the "dry" side guitar on VH1 there was some "room" reverb present.
But that big ol' plate reverb on the opposite side was a HUGE part of that tone.

Yup, the "dry" side isn't completely dry. Not sure if that's because the reverb wasn't panned 100% to the other side, or if it's because there is no completely dry track in the mix, or something else. It seems to vary a bit from track to track, too. There's also an Echoplex in there at least some of the time, but it too seems to vary from track to track.

 

[Tone_Terrific]

The room is 19x24 and 20 feet tal

That is some basement!

 

[Exiled_On_Main_St]

And mic it up. No one wants to hear an iPhone clip.

The heat is on!

 

[JoePass]

And mic it up. No one wants to hear an iPhone clip.

The heat is on!

 

[burner]

**** I knew someone would ask. I have no clue how to put up photos let alone audio. I will try to figure it out.

I have a studio built in my house and still trying to get off my ass and get stuff running.
The room is 19x24 and 20 feet tall. That may be helping the sound as well.

If you believe it and it works for you then that's all that matters.
Clips hardly ever translate well, and people can't seem to agree on that tone anyway, lol

 

[Glass Onion]

To twoheadedboy.

Yeah that is kinda my point that you made a little clearer for me. It sounds the most like the room plus all after effects...ok it sounds the most like the recorded tone and has more of the feel/dynamics of that sound. Almost effortless sustain and the ability to hear all the notes fairly clearly. Not a lot of gain but maybe the 30ms is compressing it some.

My point from the start was that reverb and delay and perhaps multitracking had a larger roll to play than most give credit to. So yeah we are both agreeing I think.

 

[Glass Onion]

And to your first point I agree or used to agree that reverb in front of a marshall is a no go. This pedal seems to just work. For the first time EVER for me anyway, a pedal sounds better (at least in this application) than going straight in sounds. But like someone said it may be that you have to be in the room to get the vibe I am trying to describe. I will endeavor to get a good recording.

 

[Rockyrollercat]

1) Nail early Van Halen in moms basement
2)
3) profit

 

[twoheadedboy]

To twoheadedboy.

Yeah that is kinda my point that you made a little clearer for me. It sounds the most like the room plus all after effects...ok it sounds the most like the recorded tone and has more of the feel/dynamics of that sound. Almost effortless sustain and the ability to hear all the notes fairly clearly. Not a lot of gain but maybe the 30ms is compressing it some.

My point from the start was that reverb and delay and perhaps multitracking had a larger roll to play than most give credit to. So yeah we are both agreeing I think.

I'm glad that you got a sound that sounds close to you. My points were meant to be more of a general statement about the futility of trying to nail the exact sound from a record, and not a criticism of your specific approach. It's fun to try to get close, but I think it's important to remember that we can only get so close with a guitar rig alone. To me, it seems that keeping that in mind might spare guitarists a lot of unnecessary hand-wringing.

 

[Glass Onion]

Amen. There is just no way to get exactly the recorded tone. Even for the artists themselves. Even humidity and temp change how things sound. So many variables.

 

[Jahn]

This all may be true, but doublers remind me of rackmount corporate rock, so i gotta hangup about it:

 

[Glass Onion]

So theory kinda supported. Got a DOD 250 for 39.99 the other day. Just got it. Had to steal a battery from the Sd1 I was using for the VH set up. (Yeah I know he did not use a pedal supposedly) the point of the thread is I got really close to the tone in a way that is not his signal chain.
The DOD is not drastically different than the SD1. So it seems reverb/delay with slight doubling is more important than the overdrive for this particular set up.

I re-state that reverb and delay are a super important part of the Eddie tone. More than most give thought about.

Next up is to try a rat as a cleaner type od to see if it still applies.

And maybe the Blackstone Effects as that one already has a great clean up ability.

 

[Glass Onion]

Update. The Blackstone was not nearly as good or close sounding as the Dod and the SD1 was the winner. Still all of them have less effect on the feel than the 30ms.
I will say the Boss SD1 was the best. It is about 25 years old. It has no decal on the back. (Lost because I used it with velcro on the base for a while back in the day.

It has Hoshino Japan on the 9volt power input. Can it be a japan model or did they all come with no power input option.
That SD1 has surprised me yet again. At least in this use it is supreme.

Have not had the time or inclination to try the other 30 or so drives sitting around. The Boss is the BOSS at the moment.