Omigosh - Vintage Marshall cab and TR Onyx?!?!!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by LSchefman, Aug 23, 2005.


  1. LSchefman

    LSchefman Supporting Member

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    You know, I was so bummed out about what a contentious session this past weekend turned out to be, that I forgot to tell you guys about the perfectly WONDERFUL sounding combination that I discovered:

    Yes, my TR Onyx Sig head, and a late 60s Marshall 4 x 12 straight front cab with vintage Greenbacks!

    What's that you say? No way? Well, I gotta tell you...this combination was GORGEOUS in the room and to tape.

    The obnoxious guitar player's Matchless died several deaths - needed a new tranny, after several problems with the unusual tube in the amp (EF86?). So I offered to bring my Onyx to the session (not that the guy deserved it, but he IS a good player). Well, no one told me that he didn't bring his cab, and I didn't bring mine, so I asked the studio what they had.

    "Vintage 60s Marshall cab with vintage Greenbacks" said the engineer (I never thought that 60s Marshall cabs had greenbacks, I thought greenies were 70s speakers, so maybe they were retrofitted, speaker experts, tell me if I'm wrong).

    "We'll try that one," I said. I plugged in the Onyx and hoped for the best.

    I can't even describe how good this combination sounded in any meaningful way. My Two-Rock effortlessly got classic rock Marshall guitar sound through this cab. The cab had that perfect low end 'schwooziness' (I just made that word up, but if you think of certain Hendrix records you know that sound) and the cone breakup in the midrange, and the lovely high end...the whole thing was just perfect to tape with an older PRS and what we were recording.

    I would NEVER have tried this combination absent this emergency, but it turned out to be a more than terrific matchup. It was, in a word, awesome.

    So much so that if I hadn't vowed never to record anything or set foot in a studio again, ever, I would be looking for one of these old cabs loaded with the vintage Greenbacks.

    If you have a TR head...and you want a pleasant surprise...try out an old Marshall cab with it. Don't just stick with what RF uses for speakers! ;)
     
  2. LSchefman

    LSchefman Supporting Member

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    Other than finding an old Marshall straight back cab for myself, if, say, someone wanted to...um...sorta get that sound - just asking, of course, I'm not going into the studio again so I don't need it ;) - are there new cabs and speakers that will do the vintage Marshall thing well?

    For some reason I thought Scumbacks were spoken of as getting this old Celestion thing happening...

    Anyone know?
     
  3. aleclee

    aleclee TGP Tech Wrangler Staff Member

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    When I was checking out my Emerald in the store, they had it hooked up to an old Marshall cab. Dunno if it's the ideal combo but it was good enough that I had to buy that amp.
     
  4. big mike

    big mike Fixed Bias Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll vote for the Scumback's Les. Jim sent me original Celestions to AB with, and they're fantastic. As far as vintage marshall Cab, guys like Mojotone, Bob Burt, Germino (Mojotone really) build a great copy of the originals.

    Nice time it sounds like. Gotta love them happy accidents!
     
  5. JPenn

    JPenn Member

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    If you've ever checked out that ProGuitar site that has a bunch of different clips of amps, the Onyx is run thru (I believe) a Dr Z cab loaded with either a GB25 or V30 and an H30. That's some pretty good Marshall-type sounds they're getting.

    http://www.proguitar.de/AudioDemo/CompareAmps/CompareAmps.html
     
  6. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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  7. big mike

    big mike Fixed Bias Moderator Staff Member

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    "satan calling...say good bye to your normal speakers"

    LOLOL

    Best investment ever!!
     
  8. mude

    mude Supporting Member

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    Very cool Les.

    I must admit that some of the best "Dumble" tones I have ever heard have come through a Dumble through a Marshall 4x12 cab (at Overland Express).

    Marshall has certainly made some great sounding cabs over the years.

    Evan.
     
  9. FlyingVBlues

    FlyingVBlues Gold Supporting Member

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    Les,

    Jim McGourty at http://www.alienxfmr.com is making a clone of the Celestion Greenback. I've heard Mook using them with his Komet and they sound terrific

    FVB
     
  10. loudboy

    loudboy Member

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    They're pretty definitive, IMHO.

    I'm not sure what it is, but they bring something to the party that I've yet to hear from any other cab.

    Loudboy
     
  11. Dana Olsen

    Dana Olsen Gold Supporting Member

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    Hey Les -

    I know YOU know, but ...

    Actually, in the "good old days" when Robben used to carry a seperate D**ble for 'clean' and one for 'gain' sounds, (with shared effects and maybe a shared Dumbleator) he too used a Marshall 4x12" cab for gain sounds and the 2x12 for cleans.

    Sounded good to me. It just costs so much to carry a huge rig like that around. If you include redundancy ( ie. backups) it's really tough on space and labor.

    On the other hand, when I saw Robben, Mark, and Patrick, Volker, Dwayne, and a good keyboardist last Friday night in Mill Valley, Robben was using a RI Fender Super Amp and that Zen-tari(? Zen -something) pedal, and while it didn't sound as good as the D**ble .....

    He didn't seem to mind, and played his butt off, as did everybody else in the band. WOW! Seriously, it didn't really "sound" like Robben's signature sound, but he plays so well, and was so comfortable with the RI Les Paul (which he played all night) that you didn't really mind.

    Sorry - I got carried away - I LOVE 4x12" cabs, love having that 'lower octave' - wish I could get away with one, but on most of my gigs, I'd be asked to bring something smaller, regardless of the actual volume. If I showed up a second time with a 4x12', I'd be 'invited' to , er, not come back.

    Those big cabs "freak out" some of the wedding planners, and some of the Cowboys too (GRIN)

    Dana
     
  12. John Phillips

    John Phillips Member

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    Old Marshall straight cabs with greenbacks are the best cabs ever.

    It's in the rules.


    They did use greenbacks in the 60s BTW, 20s and 25s up to about 1968, and 25s and 30s after that.

    (Side note/pet peeve ;) - why has "greenback" come to mean a G12M-25? They all had green backs, and aren't the same at all - the difference between a G12M-25 and a G12H-30 is pretty big - but they both have green magnet covers. Anyway...)


    The best-sounding cab I've ever owned was a checkerboard '72 straight ply-back Marshall cab with G12M-25s (and oversize wheels!). I rewired it for 4 ohms and ran it wth a '64 Fender bassman head a few years back... still the best single tone I've ever had, but a pain to move, and really very loud - even with my own-built attenuator, this was before I knew you could get things like that commercially...

    For now I'm happy with my stripped-to-the-wood '71 Marshall 4x10" - it's got a lot of the same character, but I can easily lift it with one hand :).
     
  13. LSchefman

    LSchefman Supporting Member

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    Thanks for all the info/email, guys!

    I think the unexpected tone combination speaks well for both amp and cab! :D
     
  14. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    John, I hear you. Whilst in my old Celestion buying mode it was pure hell to hear people say "just get some Pre Rola Greenbacks" and you're good to go!

    Sheesh.

    There are six versions.
    G12M 20watt 003 75hz and 014 55hz cones.
    G12M 25 watt 003 75hz and 014 55hz cones.
    G12H 30 watt 003 75hz and 014 55hz cones.

    I didn't find this out till I started the collection, and then there are the 8 and 16 ohm versions of each, too.

    It's a pet peeve of mine, too, by the way. That's why I did that thread on identifying old Greenbacks back in February, just to get some of the confusion out of the way. For those interested, here's the link to the thread.
    http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67646&highlight=Greenback+ID
     
  15. bluesdoc

    bluesdoc Gold Supporting Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Hi Dana!! Long time, my friend :)

    The keyboardist is John R and has been with them forever. Married Pat's daughter, if I'm not mistaken. I think the Super is Mark's amp and Robben was using (at the show on Sunday) a SR and the pedal is the Zendrive from Hermida Audio. Alf Hermida is the guy. I got mine last week, along with his Mosferatu pedal, and they're killer. They have some overlap but basically the Zendrive is Robben and the Mos is Carlos. At least that's what Alf told me. Unfortunately, Robben tone was drowned out by the volume of Dewayne's bass. Soundguy blues........ :rolleyes:

    jon
     
  16. lhallam

    lhallam Member

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    Great Les. I'm a silver lining kinda guy, glad you were able to make the proverbial silk purse.

    So do you like this sound better than thru the TR cab you used to have?
     
  17. LSchefman

    LSchefman Supporting Member

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    >>So do you like this sound better than thru the TR cab you used to have?<<

    Good question!

    I'm going to have to give a longish answer.

    I like to use different speaker cabs for different kinds of projects. For instance, I love the TR cabs, they're just phenomenal, but like all cabs, they have for a sound that best suits a certain vibe. The TR cab works for an awful lot of things, but most especially that sound that TR is known for. There are times a project calls for a different sound.

    I often use my Onyx with a Mesa 3/4 back cab with a 112 Black Shadow 90, the modded Celestion CL80. It's a completely different vibe, more aggressive, more midrangy. Works great for some of the alt-rock things I like to play on when I need a little more edge to the sound, but lots of guys around here wouldn't choose it, some might call it too edgy.

    I used to play an Onyx through a Bogner 212 closed back, but I'd say that cab was pretty bright with it, to the point of having too much "cut" in the room, but darned if it didn't record extremely well with the right track, where you really wanted that upper midrange peak punch.

    For a "classic rock" vibe, however, the vintage Marshall would now absolutely be the first cab I'd mic up. Even though I'd describe the band I recorded last weekend as "alt rock", the guitar player reminded me an awful lot of Dickey Betts in terms of the sound he goes for, and the Marshall cab was perfect in this setting. It was fantastic with the Onyx, and who'd-a thunk it?

    I think it's a horses for courses kind of thing; the Onyx is kind of a sonic chameleon; there aren't many sounds it can't get, so the choice of cab for a particular session makes a pretty interesting difference.

    I am not sure if this answers the question! Sound is so personal...anyway, the Marshall cab would be great for a studio, where you might want a variety.

    What's most incredible to me is that the Onyx is so good with so MANY kinds of cabs and sounds!
     

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