On second thought....(tweed content)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Angry Old Man, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. Angry Old Man

    Angry Old Man Member

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    Been asking a lot of questions and watching a lot of videos and posts about the tweed deluxe clones.
    At first I was real impressed with the whole idea and dug the tones of the 5e3's.

    However I am a pure blues guy. Favoring Albert King, Guitar Slim, Hubert Sumilin(wolf), Otis Rush, and while I was really getting cranked up to buy one of the clones....I started listening a little closer and have decided as much as I like them, they are just to quick to break up.

    As much as I like natural distortion, I think its a little too much for pure blues. So I am open to other ideas. Besides doing what I have thought about before(BF Deluxe Reverb), is there another option that I may be over looking?
    $2000 is a little more than I wanted to spend, and unless someone knows a "real fix", I just dont like the DRRI's. Way too bright and not nearly as smooth at the originals.

    Right now I may go back to considering a modded Blues Jr. Mainly because I can get decent tones at low volume levels, since 90% of the playing will be at home.

    Any other opinions out there(options?)

    Thanks
    AOM
     
  2. teleman1

    teleman1 Supporting Member

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    Do you fish? Use a boat? These Blues Jr's make great skippers. Tie a rope, get up to 20 knots and that thing fly's through the air on the tiniest wake.
    A good 5e3 does still have headroom. IS this for playing at home or a band? People turn the 5e3 on full,turn the volume down and clean comes and a clean hard to compare with, nice and thick. Someone had a Cox 5e3 in the forum.

    ALso, I bet they get a bit more head room with using lower gain pre-amp tubes.
    A good 5e3 probably outclasses a BJ ion a number of levels.

    Have you looked at Fenders new Excelsier??? 15" speaker Volume and tremolo and it looks retro,(like 1956 style), very cool.
    A lot of this depends on how loud you need to have it.
     
  3. guitars4god86

    guitars4god86 Member

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    I second teleman1...good 5E3 clones can get some great clean tones. My clone (Li'l Dawg) came with 12AX7s in the preamp section, but switching them out to 12AU7s drastically reduced the gain of the amp, even at cranked levels. The amp still got dirty, yes, but not nearly as much as before, and there was a much wider range of cleans!

    I gotta say, I've played Blues Juniors and even with mods, they'll never reach the sound of my clone. It can be a little nerve racking buying an amp without hearing it first (which is my assumption of what you'd be doing) but I was very happy with mine!
     
  4. RupertB

    RupertB Supporting Member

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    My 5E3 clone will get fairly loud before it starts to get into serious breakup. Around 4 it is near (what I consider) stage levels and with only a little hair when I hit it hard.

    From 5 on up, it doesn't get much louder but the OD increases significantly. IMO, it would make a terrific blues amp & a good compromise between "loud enough for gigs" while able to get into it's sweet spot without rattling the windows at home. Likely, a good deal of the vids you have seen of 5E3 clones are running them near wide-open.

    That said, if you're looking for something closer to BF but not dropping big cash, you still have some good options.

    http://winfieldamps.com/
    http://www.allenamps.com/

    Unless things have changed since I last looked, you should be able to get into a used Bandmaster head & cab or sf Princeton in good condition for under a grand.
     
  5. guitarcapo

    guitarcapo Senior Member

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    You might want to consider a brownface Deluxe. If you can't find many new versions, there's the Mission amps volume/tone mod kit that effectively converts a tweed Deluxe 5E3 into something very close to a brownface Deluxe. It's kind of the evolutionary link between the tweed Deluxe and blackface Deluxe. It doesn't have the "tone stack" of a blackface Deluxe with its refined sound...but it's a bit less raw than a tweed Deluxe.

    There's also the tweed Bassman to consider. Not exactly a 5E3 but something more in the Deluxe vein with more headroom.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  6. 55hz

    55hz Member

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    Victoria Double Deluxe?
     
  7. msgdsrf

    msgdsrf Member

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    This is simple, At Mars. A "take" an tweed, does break up but with clarity and headroom.
     
  8. Angry Old Man

    Angry Old Man Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXhAuJtYvkg .....Freddie King
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0aIjyX7vwI ......Hubert Sumilin
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etZmdNgtRTk .....Guitar Slim



    This is basically the tone I am after.

    On youtube the only examples of the clones was wide open,...many with les pauls. Needless to say I am not after the neal Young thing(not that I dont like him)

    I am going to be playing this for the most part at home but I do sometimes go sit in with a couple bands and normally do something on the order of Guitar Slim.

    I would easily have $700 in a modded Blues jr, so spending a grand on a proper clone is certainly doable.

    Wish somebody would have demoded some blues on youtube. I cant open the clips from the amp makers for some reason

    If I buy a clone it will be the lil dawg.

    any body else?

    Thanks AOM
     
  9. Dillow4092

    Dillow4092 Member

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    You should try a Tungsten Crema Wheat. Whatever Adam has done to the circuit seems to give it a decent amount of headroom even with the 2 12ax7's. Mine came with a GZ34 rectifier which contributes as well.

    Just a fantastic sounding amp!
     
  10. Angry Old Man

    Angry Old Man Member

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    I guess running the "Y" tubes(1 or2) would hold the gain down?

    btw: I use a gibby 56 RI Les Paul
     
  11. dmargo1045

    dmargo1045 Member

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    I have a '55 5E3, not a clone, which I use on low volume jazz gigs and low to mid-volume jamming. I've tried bringing it to blues jams, but I do need a little more headroom than it can provide. But it does have a great clean tone that I like a lot in the right situation. I couldn't have it as my only gigging amp, but I like it a lot when the time is right.
     
  12. RupertB

    RupertB Supporting Member

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    There you go. The 5E3 is the most input-sensitive amp I've ever played. You can easily go from clean(ish) to wide open scream based on pickup selection, volume roll-off, or simply how hard you hit the strings. The "feel" aspect of these amps is a big part of their character. Can't get that from clips.

    Yes, the 12ay7 will tame a little of the gain on a 5E3. That's what I have in V1 of mine.
     
  13. Dale

    Dale Member

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    The 6l6 5e3's, the double deluxe, brownface versions. Not exactly the same but a nice tweed tone is in the Bassman LTD. It is what I use when I need more than the 5e3 for clean headroom (I play buckers).
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  14. Custom Deluxe

    Custom Deluxe Member

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    From what you are looking to do, you can't go wrong with one of David Barnes' Vintage 47 amps. A lot of the Blues guys recording using Valco-type amps. David makes faithful recreations with modern parts.

    He has an amp for what ever you are looking to do. His most expensive amp is somewhere around $1,000. Most are in the $600 range. Check it out. I think you'll be very happy with them.

    I have one of 5W Valco Spector style amps and it fits the bill for great home playing.

    I also have a Deluxe Reverb that gets some Bluesy mojo as well.

    Tough decisions.
     
  15. teleman1

    teleman1 Supporting Member

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    AOM, I have been around guitars now for some 40 years. I like to think of my self as pretty dang up on most amps. However, I never tried a 5e3 till last year when I tried a real 57. It was a total eye opener. I have never heard a more appropriate amp for blues ever. I'd also take a serius look at the Creamowheat!
     
  16. Custom Deluxe

    Custom Deluxe Member

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    Yeah, I'm thinking a 5E3 maybe my next amp purchase as well.
     
  17. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    I had a 5E3 clone and really liked it a lot, but I absolutely prefer more headroom. Of course, I tend to be a pretty clean player.

    There's a local guy that plays a Tweed Bandmaster clone and w Sparkle Drive and has absolutely fantastic tone! He used to have a more generic clone, then got a Victoria clone.

    I dunno about moving from a Tweed amp to a Blackface amp just to get more headroom... with speaker swaps and tube swaps... maybe. But if you truly like the Tweed type tone, I'd probably try to get it out of a Tweed type amp.
     
  18. VintageKnob

    VintageKnob Supporting Member

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    My R8 with the volume on my Lil Dawg at about 2 lets me pick light for clean and dig for dirt, past that humbuckers will bring out the grind in a 5E3 pretty early. Single coils are a completely different world. That said, listen to Claptons from the cradle, there's some video on youtube of the studio sessions, that's no twin. More like his 335 through a deluxe. I love the sound of LP through my 5E3.

    Just a suggestion, I'm sure that many 5E3 builders are quite knowledgeable but I've found Jim at Lil Dawg very willing to talk tone. Explain to him what your after and he may have some good suggestions for you. Here's the number off his website: (916) 434-0844 - tell him Don suggested you call.

    Tweeds are such simple circuits that they're quite easy to mod to fit your taste and needs. It took me a few years but I've got 2 5E3's dialed in just where I like them. Cap values, tubes, speakers - everything makes a difference on a tweed amp. They're like an old hot rod. The ones with the fenders and the hood pulled off. Plain and simple and awesome.

    Jim taught me a ton and now I have what I consider my dream 5E3's, as well as a custom Princeton clone that I love.

    That's my 2 cents - I hope you find what your looking for! :)

    - D
     
  19. ReddRanger

    ReddRanger Member

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    I own a LTD Bassman RI, '73 Vibrolux Reverb, Blues Junior NOS, and I'm also a blues player.

    For what I'm hearing from you, I'd suggest going with the 5e3. I just don't think you'd be happy with a Blues Junior in the long run. I have a love/hate relationship with mine and I often fantasize about replacing it with a ....5e3 :)

    Just my honest opinion.
     
  20. mad dog

    mad dog Silver Supporting Member

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    I'm partial to tweed pros and variants thereof, 2 6L6 and a bigger speaker. More watts, bigger sound, more headroom and just a whole lot to like. I also appreciate the way the tone controls work on the later tweed pros (treble=gain). All in all, these amps seem to work equally well for blues or anything else I can play.

    Another thought: My favorite of the later Fenders is the VR, which led me to the Allen Encore. At 35 watts, it's perfect in many ways, also has a beautiful overdrive at loud enough levels. A 1x12 Encore would be a very versatile amp.
    MD
     

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