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On the topic of modes: Books and Websites for applied theory?

vintagelove

Member
Messages
2,952
No chord I can think of requires a 6-fret stretch. I mean,



Some of my favorites, listed chords are just one example of the way they could be used


Top 4 strings Low to high

C# G F# B (A7)

G D C# F# (Em7)



All 6 stings (Cm), great ending chord for minor


A Eb G C A D
 

JonR

Member
Messages
15,776
Hehe, you guys... :)

Firstly, Ed, well done for (a) picking up on a post of mine that's a month old, and (b) picking an argument where none exists.

Nothing about my post was "absolute". Let me quote from that very post:

"I'm sure some 6-fret-spanning shapes have been invented (I could invent some of my own!), but they would be niche requirements"

Not "never used", notice. Just rarely required.

Or maybe you're claiming the shape you posted is a common one? One that is commonly necessary? Maybe you play it a lot, but I doubt many others do. I mean I can invent shapes like that as easily as you can. I never said such shapes are "not possible", only that - in the context of this thread - they are most certainly "niche requirements". Which means rarely if ever required. Which doesn't mean you can't play one if you want.

Secondly - to both of you - those are not 6-fret stretches. They are 5-fret stretches.
And nice chords too. Just (to repeat myself yet again) rarely required. ;)
Unless, of course, you can list several tunes where those chords occur. I don't need many examples, let's just say a mere dozen from each of you - to prove they're not rare. (Remember the chord must be required, not simply an option.)
 

Aaron Mayo

Member
Messages
2,201
Ok I got the advancing guitarist. I have work to do!

the part on modes combined with single string playing is not a ton of work and will make modes crystal clear if you do what he says. It’s even easier These days because you don’t need cassette tapes To record the vamps, just your smartphone.
 

Aaron Mayo

Member
Messages
2,201
:D

Yes, then you just need to learn the technique of whipping the capo on and off between changes... ;)

I mean, yes for the specific example I gave (boogie pattern in F) a capo could indeed be a sensible solution. I was thinking more of non-capo solutions, because sometimes playing in F with no capo is better than E with the capo.

I just invert it. I think it sounds better inverted when there’s a bass.
 

Ed DeGenaro

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
25,234
Hehe, you guys... :)

Firstly, Ed, well done for (a) picking up on a post of mine that's a month old, and (b) picking an argument where none exists.

Nothing about my post was "absolute". Let me quote from that very post:

"I'm sure some 6-fret-spanning shapes have been invented (I could invent some of my own!), but they would be niche requirements"

Not "never used", notice. Just rarely required.

Or maybe you're claiming the shape you posted is a common one? One that is commonly necessary? Maybe you play it a lot, but I doubt many others do. I mean I can invent shapes like that as easily as you can. I never said such shapes are "not possible", only that - in the context of this thread - they are most certainly "niche requirements". Which means rarely if ever required. Which doesn't mean you can't play one if you want.

Secondly - to both of you - those are not 6-fret stretches. They are 5-fret stretches.
And nice chords too. Just (to repeat myself yet again) rarely required. ;)
Unless, of course, you can list several tunes where those chords occur. I don't need many examples, let's just say a mere dozen from each of you - to prove they're not rare. (Remember the chord must be required, not simply an option.)
Picking an argument? Hardly...having a discussing that might become spirited? Possibly.

Making up shapes? Oh come on that's just silly. It's a 3rd in version close voicing and if you do chord melody and don't want to change a certain piano voicing it very much is required.
I'd love to take credit for coming up with it but alas not...that ones from my days of Ted Greene lessons.
Just as a rootless 9 spelled b7 3 9 5.

And I'm mosdef not sure at what point required comes into the argument since I'm guessing we have very different ones, requirements that is.

Songs? You mean stuff in Pop? Not my department. But Gambales tuning is based on being able to play these voicings. Although the stretch factor goes obviously out the window.
As for 6 fret spans make it a rootless ∆9...7-9-3-5.

You do seem to have a tendency often down play things that aren't of use to you...
 
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JonR

Member
Messages
15,776
Picking an argument? Hardly...having a discussing that might become spirited? Possibly.

Making up shapes? Oh come on that's just silly. It's a 3rd in version close voicing and if you do chord melody and don't want to change a certain piano voicing it very much is required.
My emphasis. I call that a "niche requirement" - a big double "if" - but of course YMMV. I guess you do that sort of thing all the time. I don't suppose the OP would be.
And I'm mosdef not sure at what point required comes into the argument since I'm guessing we have very different ones, requirements that is.
Sure. But here's the quote from the OP that I was thinking of:

"I'm still a bit of a beginner and realizing that more and more every day.
Secondly, I need help in book form and site form with jazz chords. My hand has fingers that are chubbier than some people's and not as long. I'm having a real time trying to manage many chords right now. Getting three fingers on adjacent strings and the same fret is hard, stretching 4 and 5 frets is hard for me."

I don't think it helps the OP to suggest that stretchy chords like those above would be "necessary" at his stage. There are all kinds of ways of playing any standard jazz chord progression using quite simple partial shapes with no stretching at all.
Songs? You mean stuff in Pop? Not my department. But Gambales tuning is based on being able to play these voicings. Although the stretch factor goes obviously out the window.
As for 6 fret spans make it a rootless ∆9...7-9-3-5.
You mean like x-7-5-x-10-8? I still count that as a 5-fret stretch, not 6. But what's one fret between friends? ;)
You do seem to have a tendency often down play things that aren't of use to you...
No, just things that aren't of (much if any) use to the OP. (I very much like the chords and sounds in Jeff's current thread on Juan Dhas. Lots of stretching there ;))
 

Ed DeGenaro

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
25,234
My emphasis. I call that a "niche requirement" - a big double "if" - but of course YMMV. I guess you do that sort of thing all the time. I don't suppose the OP would be.
Sure. But here's the quote from the OP that I was thinking of:

"I'm still a bit of a beginner and realizing that more and more every day.
Secondly, I need help in book form and site form with jazz chords. My hand has fingers that are chubbier than some people's and not as long. I'm having a real time trying to manage many chords right now. Getting three fingers on adjacent strings and the same fret is hard, stretching 4 and 5 frets is hard for me."

I don't think it helps the OP to suggest that stretchy chords like those above would be "necessary" at his stage. There are all kinds of ways of playing any standard jazz chord progression using quite simple partial shapes with no stretching at all.
You mean like x-7-5-x-10-8? I still count that as a 5-fret stretch, not 6. But what's one fret between friends? ;)
No, just things that aren't of (much if any) use to the OP. (I very much like the chords and sounds in Jeff's current thread on Juan Dhas. Lots of stretching there ;))
No I meant like top 4 strings...frets
9 7 5 3

And for the dom9 frets...
12 13 7 7

And yes for a beginner they're some what useless.
 

JonR

Member
Messages
15,776
No I meant like top 4 strings...frets
9 7 5 3
Ah! OK, that is a 6-fret stretch. And totally ridiculous. FWIW, I can (just about) play it, as well as the (very slightly easier) higher alternative x-14-12-9-8-x.
I do understand the purpose - the close voicing with all the notes sounding - but I think would forgo the opportunity to emulate a piano in this case.

I mean, for this specific chord there are easier options (using open strings), but of course they're not movable for other chords.
And for the dom9 frets...
12 13 7 7
That one I find somewhat easier. I mean, not easy exactly, but easier.
And yes for a beginner they're some what useless.
Unless we want to scare them. :D
 




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