One more time... Strymon Flint stereo/summing question

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by smj, Feb 15, 2015.

  1. smj

    smj Member

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    Hi all,

    I ran my timeline in stereo the other day and I'll just say that I have renewed interest in the pedal even though I've had it since they came out. I generally use it for a few things, but hearing it in stereo... It's like all of a sudden there's so much more space for the effect to go and keep the punch of your dry signal.

    That said, I don't have the Flint's input set to stereo yet.... as I like it after delay. I will be able to run in stereo on occasion... But other times I just have one amp with me.

    If you use the trs insert capability of the Flint... Does it in fact sum to mono when running only the left output? I've read two threads on this subject saying two different things. Any info would be much appreciated!

    Sean Meredith-Jones
    www.seanmeredithjones.com
     
  2. smj

    smj Member

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  3. RockDebris

    RockDebris Member

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    Should be easy to test. Run the Timeline's Dual Delay algorithm to do a Ping Pong effect and see what's up when you yank the Right output of the Flint.
     
  4. tobereleased

    tobereleased Member

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    I'll test my flint tomorrow, as I'm interested (and already have it set up for stereo input). I personally use a boss rc30 for summing to mono if necessary.
     
  5. olbean

    olbean Member

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    It doesn't unfortunately - I've asked Strymon before. In fact, I don't believe any of the Strymon pedals will do this. I think the Neunaber Wet reverb does though, if you were looking for something to sum to mono at the end of your chain!
     
  6. jota

    jota Member

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    But, why do you want a stereo effect sum to mono?!
    Just for the convenience of choosing mono when you just use one output on the Flint?
     
  7. smj

    smj Member

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    Yes... Otherwise I have to open it up to flip the switch every time I want to use it in mono. Unfortunately I don't have a trs splitter cable on hand to test it... and it's a holiday, so nothing's open at the moment!

    Sean Meredith-Jones
    www.seanmeredithjones.com
     
  8. tobereleased

    tobereleased Member

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    Yeah, I just tested mine, and it doesn't sum to mono.

    I have 3 effects pedals at the end of my chain that all run in stereo. If I didn't have a pedal that could sum to mono at the end of my chain, then I'd have to rewire a significant portion of my board for when I was only using one amp. I use both amps most of the time, but occasionally I'm limited for space. The Flint (and El Cap) sound amazing in stereo, but not every situation calls for that.
     
  9. smj

    smj Member

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    I'll take your word for it. Thanks.

    Strange thing is, in this thread:

    http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1205390

    One poster mentioned Rick from Strymon confirmed that it did sum to mono. But if you've tested it and it doesn't, that seems to be the final verdict.

    Since hearing the Timeline in stereo, it got me thinking of either getting an H9 or Big Sky to use as my reverb. I do love the Flint! Might hang on to it and swap it back in on one amp situations.

    Sean Meredith-Jones
    www.seanmeredithjones.com
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2015
  10. RockDebris

    RockDebris Member

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    I tested as well and confirmed that it does not sum the stereo input to mono by simply removing the Right Output. It probably sums it for the effect processing, which is a different lane of traffic in Strymon pedals from what I've read. That might lead to the different answers you've read.

    If you are just using the Timeline and Flint in stereo, you can still leave the Flint jumper in stereo mode and replace the insert cable with an ordinary patch when necessary. I tested this and it worked fine. Maybe you can wire up the connection between the Timeline and Flint in mono and just add in the insert cable when required?

    I wonder what problem you could run up against just leaving the jumper in stereo and letting the input signal be the determining factor?

    I don't believe there is much difference to what you would have to do using the BigSky. Once I put the BigSky back in place, I tested it the same way. I ran stereo between Timeline and BigSky, but I removed the right output of the BigSky. It still did not sum the thru signal. I'd still have to sever the Right connection between Timeline and BigSky. And then the same was true with the Timeline and the stereo pedal before it. I basically did not find evidence that the Strymon pedals will sum stereo inputs to mono for the purpose of sending the signal thru. I'll test again if someone thinks I missed something and offers suggestion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2015
  11. mcdes

    mcdes Member of no importance

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    Which is exactly why I have the stereo wet at the end of my chain. It just so happens to pair with the bigsky really well too!
     
  12. smj

    smj Member

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    If you could just leave the jumper in stereo position regardless of what input you were using... My first thought is... What's the point of the jumper then? They must have had a reason for putting it there. I would hate to find out the hard way that I've don irreparable damage to the pedal.

    Sean Meredith-Jones
    www.seanmeredithjones.com
     
    7thString likes this.
  13. stinkfoot

    stinkfoot Member

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    I feel like a broken vinyl disc (lots of threads on summing to mono lately), but in my world it is a bonus that it doesn't sum to mono. Doing so is fraught with risks - not of damage, but of weird phase cancellation issues, due to the two signals being relatively but not completely similar.
     
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  14. RockDebris

    RockDebris Member

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    It's a good question that I don't know the answer to. Maybe by disabling sampling and summing of the sleeve signal for effect processing the chance of added noise is eliminated? Just a guess though. Could be defensive engineering. The early versions of the pedals didn't allow stereo input, so it was added to the 5 knob pedal circuitry. Allowing the pedal's config to be changed via a jumper allows for resolving any unintended effects that could have arisen from changing it into a hard stereo input. You know how guitarists are always talking about the way a pedal used to be "before" a change in design. Let me know if you find out more.

    If it would could cause irreparable damage, I would think they'd make that well known in the documentation regarding it.
     
  15. mikoo69

    mikoo69 Supporting Member

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    Old thread but looking into this. Are you saying that it's better to have 1 side Left or Right rather than summing to mono due to phase cancellation/artifacts?

    I understand it would be a different story for a ping pong delay or something as you'd lose half the repeats, but for a stereo reverb, it would be better to keep it in stereo and just take one output?
     
  16. stinkfoot

    stinkfoot Member

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    Yes - if I have a chain that I'm going to sometimes run in stereo, sometimes in mono (and don't want to re-patch the whole chain), I prefer to leave the signal chain stereo until the last pedal, then just take either the L or R output as the mono output. While it may be tempting to sum both channels, in order to keep all the repeats from a ping-pong delay, I feel it is better to select a mono delay with half the delay time, to get the same effect. I find that by not summing to mono, that helps keep the core signal more intact (the phase issues that may happen when summing will have a definite impact on the core tone).
     
  17. 7thString

    7thString Member

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    Sorry to dig up an old thread, but has anyone come across any issues in leaving their smallbox Strymons set to stereo input even when running them in mono? I have an el cap, lex and deco that I use frequently with mono guitar, but also like to run as stereo hardware, and change the order etc - this can lead to a lot of jumper swapping!!
     
  18. tobereleased

    tobereleased Member

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    Some of the small box pedals handle stereo inputs better than others.

    The Flint and onwards (including Deco and Dig) will take stereo inputs, and actually do full stereo processing with them. Earlier pedals (including the el cap for certain, lex I'm not sure) will let you use stereo inputs that will retain their stereo field for the dry through, but all the effect processing is done on a mono sum of the inputs.

    I personally have an el cap, a deco, and a flint. I run them in that order - el cap first because it isn't as good at handling stereo inputs as the other two. The el cap is where I split to stereo in my chain. My last pedal is still the RC30 (as per my post above from 2015) which does a good job of doing a mono sum when I only use one amp. In fact, the only difference in the last part of my chain since 2015 is the addition of the deco, which I only got a week or so ago.

    I did try using stereo inputs for my el cap a while back (splitting the signal at my SY300 instead) but the mono sum aspect did some slightly funny things to my signal levels.
     
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  19. 7thString

    7thString Member

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    Thanks man, that is super helpful. To be honest, I'm very likely just going to install spdt switches on all three pedals to replace the jumpers. Should be an easy job considering the jumper lugs are well separated and there is a nice space to install the switch on the front face of each pedal.
     

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