Opinions: Ecstasy versus the Herbert

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by RSRD, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. RSRD

    RSRD Member

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    Anyone had the luxury own owning both, or demoing both, a Diezel Herbert and a Bogner XTC? curious as to the difference in tone on cleans and heavies. Also, please include what xtc you are referring to (classis or 101b)

    Thanks!

    Thomas
     
  2. Wizard of Ozz

    Wizard of Ozz Silver Supporting Member

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    I've played the XTC Classic, 101b, & 100b... and own the Herbert. 2 totally different amps. The Herbert is more of a modern high gain amp... the Bogner is more of a vintage voiced amp with a good deal of gain on tap, but I would not call it a "high gain amp", at least compared to the Herbert.

    The XTCs have more sag/squish to them. The Herbert is tighter/more focused in its voicing. The XTCs are darker/looser, while the Herbert is brighter and tighter. The XTC is voiced much more in the low mids, while the Herbert has more of an upper mid bite. As far as preamp gain and low end go, the Herbert has much more than any XTC. The XTC is more of a smooth mid gain amp that excells at certain styles, but heavy rock or metal is not it's forte IMHO. The Herbert's clean channel is just that, a clean channel. The Herbert's clean sounds like a huge, wide open Fender Twin with plenty of bounce/chime and zero breakup... the XTC's clean is darker, grittier, and will easily breakup. It really depends on your personal taste and what you'll be playing.

    If you play them side by side, the differences are quite apparent.
     
  3. RSRD

    RSRD Member

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    Does the clean on the XTC classic break up early too? That concerns me. I like a pure clean.

    Thanks for the in depth comparison. I'm hoping to demo em again this week. I can't really crank them the way I'd like so it's always good to get feedback from people that have worked them for awhile.

    ~t
     
  4. shoe

    shoe Member

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    Another great thing about the Herbert is that it can achieve great tones a very low volumes. I live in an apartment and use the Herbert at home while I use my OD100 SE at my rehearsal space.

    Love 'em both. Never liked the XTC. Way too saggy for my taste.
     
  5. RSRD

    RSRD Member

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    By saggy do you mean loose? boomy? are you hearing this at quiet and loud settings?
     
  6. procos

    procos Supporting Member

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    Wizzard nailed it. Couldn't say it better myself.

    Chuck
     
  7. Wizard of Ozz

    Wizard of Ozz Silver Supporting Member

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    The Classic's clean is better than the 101b or 100b, but it still does distort when overdriven. The Herbert's clean channel is the "purer" more transparent clean of the two.

    When I say sag, I mean that the XTCs have a slower transient attack when you play fast single note runs. Basically, I can play faster than the XTC can amplify the sound... the Herbert has a much faster attack; you play a note, and hear it- no waiting. Also the XTC has more of a vintage voicing in that individual notes begin-build-bloom-then fall away... with the Herbert notes go thru this same process much faster.

    As Shoe mentioned the Herbert has an amazing master volume design. It sounds killer at almost any volume level. The XTC also has a good MV, but the Herbert's is more effective at lower volumes.

    Another item worth mentioning is the fx loop. The Herbert's loop is one of the best in the biz. Very transparent with little coloration and it works with a wide range of both rack and pedal fx. I can't say the same for the XTC.
     
  8. Wizard of Ozz

    Wizard of Ozz Silver Supporting Member

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    :D
     
  9. MARCO

    MARCO Member

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    Hey WIZZ, Can you tell me a little about the different FX loops on the Herbert ?? I have one and can't seem to choose which one is best for my application....Sometimes I run the stomp stuff thru the front and then my rack thru a THD Hotplate line out (especially when I use the cab in stereo)...any help would be great.
    Thanks
     
  10. Wizard of Ozz

    Wizard of Ozz Silver Supporting Member

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    What fx are you using?

    I usually run overdirves and clean boosts thru the front and put my delay and chorus in the loop (series mode).

    Are you running a wet/dry set up with a seperate power amp?
     
  11. MARCO

    MARCO Member

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    * Here it is starting with the floor stuff:
    guitar - wah-axees elec. buffer/splitter - tuner - mxr evhpahse90 -mxr flange(original cord version) - h&k replex - amp

    * Rack is (top to bottom):
    furman p/c - eventide h3000 dse - rockman noise gate - vht 2/50/2 power amp

    * Hot Plate sits atop the Diezel

    * The floor stuff usually goes thru the front of the amp and the rack stuff is herbert to thd line out to eventide to vht....
     
  12. Wizard of Ozz

    Wizard of Ozz Silver Supporting Member

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    How many cabs are you running?

    EVH fan eh? :D
     
  13. MARCO

    MARCO Member

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    kind of....yes !! one cab that is stereo or sometimes doing the wet dry wet thing with one 4x12(dry) and 2-1x12's for the f/x.
     
  14. Wizard of Ozz

    Wizard of Ozz Silver Supporting Member

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    1st I'd use the tuner out from the Herbert to run the tuner instead of running it thru the front.

    2nd I'd try running the "mxr evhpahse90 -mxr flange(original cord version) - h&k replex" thru the loop. Time based fx usually sound better thru the loop, so this might sound a bit better.

    Other than that it, seems you've got a pretty ass kickin W/D/W rig going on there.
     
  15. MARCO

    MARCO Member

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    but series or parallel ?? by the way OZZ, what is the compensated out for...?? It looks like a line out with the volukme knob back there and all......???
     
  16. Wizard of Ozz

    Wizard of Ozz Silver Supporting Member

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    Series.

    Herbie does have a compensated line out on the back (direct recording, to a mixer, etc.). I haven't messed around with mine, so I'm not sure if it will do what you want. Unless you want to run straight out of the line out to your rack and totally bypass Herbie's power section. You wouldn't need the Hotplate then either.
     
  17. tone slave

    tone slave Member

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    the clean on the classic is much better than the 101b, and while it does break up if you turn up the gain, it stays pretty damn clean with the gain set at 10:00 or lower (depending on pickup output).
     
  18. Urkoman

    Urkoman Member

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    I´ve A/B ed them several times (XTC 101B). Wizz said it quite good, the herbert has a way better clean, and way more gain (ch 3 for me has too much even with preamp at 1 :eek: ) BUT the XTC has a more organic feel to me, specially for bluesy/soft rock/hard (but not too hard :p ) rock.
    It´s a matter of anyone´s ear, i loved them both. At the time i picked the XTC, but today maybe i´d pick the Herbie :confused: , it was a very tough contest.
    PD: The MV on the herbert is astonishing, you never know what a good MV is until you see you can play a 180 watt amp at 1 and sound great :eek:
    Anyway, i prefer the OD100SE better than both of them, but hey, my taste is not yours. All 3 amps are great.
     

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