opinions sought on new planned pedal rig...

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by norumba, Feb 19, 2009.

  1. norumba

    norumba Member

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    so im returning to the land of tone and effect tweaking after many years away, which brought me to TGP a couple of weeks ago. i'd like to thank everyone for their expertise and experience -- i've learned an awful lot in a very short time. i started off my effects reacquaintance last year with a digital multifx unit (RP250, please dont laugh), which was Ok as a base point but i quickly became aware of its shortcomings and limitations re tone, headroom, etc. Been planning and researching how to replace it for some time, and hence the following setup.

    i understand some of the basics of pedal order, etc, but theres some subtleties that im discovering ive yet to delve into or experience, so id like to run the following planned set up by the group, see if theres anything im missing or havent considered... some items i already have and use, some ive researched and am planning on getting, some are already here but not tried out yet!

    am running either a Vigier Surfreter or another custom fretless (w/p-rails) into a stereo rig of two 5w blackheart combos, retubed. tuning is extended, from low C to hi F on top. Need stuff in general that can handle the low end.

    style is hard to describe -- a lot of free jazz/free improv, but heavily East Indian rooted, and a lot of classic rock/funk elements as well. Think White Stripes + Bill Frisell+Ornette Coleman jamming on a Kolkata rooftop.

    guitars into this projected order:

    RMC1 -- thought of a WOF but found a good deal with a used RMC1, circa 2007 build. i like the dark smoothness from the sound samples, and though RMC1 generally advised against humbuckers, i tend to use wah mainly in single coil or p90 mode on the custom fretless or in the 2 and 4 positions on the vigier wiring. If the RMC1 doesnt work, ill flip it or trade for a WOF.

    compressor -- thinking of the new seymour duncan or a Barber Tone Press. the blend factor is critical as i want to keep the attack as natural as possible (generally hate what compressors do the attack), just need good transparent sustain to help with the fretless' inherent sustain issues.

    micro pog -- need one of these! main project is guitar/ drum duo, need something to help fill out the sound. pitch shifting /harmonizing on the multifx was horribly out of tune.

    some EH users on their forum like to use this early in the chain to improve tracking stability. any thoughts? before or after wah, before or after compressor?

    voodoo labs micro vibe -- have it around from when i used to do pedals, may still have a use for it. keeping it and will try it in the whole rig for now

    various dirt -- i know its not boutique, but i do love my seymour duncan twin tube classic -- so much so that i bought another one from the emporium listing a couple of days ago when mine died ( will send the defunct one to be fixed and keep as a spare).

    That said, i 'm wondering if i need some different shades on the dirt category:
    the tube screamer modeler in the multifx was interesting -- was my first experience with a TS kind of character and i understand now about the mid hump - but rather thin in the modeler. might add a better all around TS808 type unit, doesnt have to be boutique.

    a big muff is definitely a sound i want to add ! will probably go with wicker or LBM.

    i also may need something just a hair beyond clean boost ; the TTC rhythm side might can work in this mode, however the TTC has a fairly muscular character that i love and may not work for what im hearing in this particular app, which needs something a tad less drivey with a bit more sparkle and transparency. A Tim would be nice, but seems a bit pricey for a tone that while specific and necessary, i may not need much. Might go with the danelectro TOD for bang for buck,but am wrestling with the ethical issues re its design vs. Tim.

    Also considering one of the Barbers for this app but really dont know which model would be best.

    questions for those with far more OD experience than I: anything in the above dirt options that im duplicating or wouldnt need ? best way to stack those? anything you see in the above that could cover more than one of the options? i.e., would the right unit cover both TS territory and light hairy boost?

    modulation -- set here -- have a nice non warbly chorus in the boss DC3.

    delay/verb/other my needs for these are pretty simple at the moment -- some basic subtle verbs and light ambient ping pong delays for now, thats it. I will probably add my Boss SE50 1/2 rack unit to the board to handle these basic delay and verb duties. It will make the board big though, dont know how travel worthy or stable it is but OTOH i cant quite see dropping 300 for a set of digitech Hardwire delay/verb pedals if my apps are so simple. Im open to some alternatives to cover these basics if theres something out there im not aware of.

    If i get into delay as a serious tool, the SMM w/Hazarai will be the one -- seesm like it gets into some pretty experimental territory, which certainly suits what we do.

    am toying with the whammy to bend harmonics with (the rp250 actually has whammy functionaility, may keep it just for that) as well as a simple looper -- catch a bass riff or even just a note from the whammy or micro pog, loop it or 'one shot' it as needed.

    finally -- need a tuner; need good suggestions on powering this all up. also, if you see any pitfalls re impedance, buffer, bypass issues in the above proposed layout, please let me know.

    i know this was long, but i thank you all in advance for your collective wisdom and ideas!
     
  2. jfromel

    jfromel Gold Supporting Member

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    Compressor - Barber is a good one - also look at some optical compressors.

    Modulation - Boss DC-2 and another I can't mention for fear of spam. The DC-3 is nice but digital, the DC-2 is analog, warm.

    Delay - Boss DD-2 or early DD-3, also digging the Malekko E600B

    Tuner - TU2 (buffered) or Pitchblack (true bypass)

    Dirt - Timmy and Silverkiss can cover a lot of ground, skip the TOD, you get what you pay for.

    Micro POG - one of my favorite pedals, wish it had a bit of boost though.
     
  3. norumba

    norumba Member

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    thanks f or the thoughts!
    would love a DC2, but theyre very hard to find, still keeping an eye out for one.
    Not familiar with silver kiss or the Malekko , i'll do some hunting around TGP threads for info...
    where would you put the micro POG in the proposed chain?

    re Tuners, those are the two ive been looking at. Given what else im proposing to run, which tuner option (buffer or by pass) would you recommend and where in the chain?
     
  4. norumba

    norumba Member

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    *bump*

    good morning every one :)
     
  5. mobis8

    mobis8 Member

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    If you are looking at other boss pedals for modulation etc. I would probably go with the pitch black. The TU-2 is a good tuner IMO if you have a bunch of true bypass only pedals following it. Not to mention I think the tracking on the pitchblack is superior to the TU-2 and at a great price.
     
  6. norumba

    norumba Member

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    not sure what the final mix of buffer vs bypass pedals will be ,but what im getting form your post is if theres a lot of true bypass, go with the buffer tuner, and vice versa. where would you put the tuner in the chain?
     
  7. mobis8

    mobis8 Member

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    Everyone is different, but first is usually a safe choice. I actually don't have mine in a chain, I split my signal.
     
  8. Brettski

    Brettski Member

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    I was looking at the Twin Tube as well, but heard some nasty things about the tube they use (but this IS the internet, full of flowing, unmitigated opinions). I ended up with a Tonebone Classic and I could not be happier!
     
  9. norumba

    norumba Member

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    nasty how? its a drag you cant replace it yourself, true, but other than that i havent heard any other drawbacks... something i dont know to spoil the love affair? :)
     
  10. norumba

    norumba Member

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    *bump* -- seeking all views :)
     
  11. dancehall

    dancehall Member

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    I personally have my Micro POG first but since it tracks so well I doubt you'd have any big problems putting it after any pedal you like.
     
  12. norumba

    norumba Member

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    if you cant elaborate, care to PM me? :)
     
  13. u12drag

    u12drag Silver Supporting Member

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    Get a Seraph Chorus! They sound great!
     
  14. lespauldoc

    lespauldoc Member

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    guitars into this projected order:

    RMC1 -- Excellent wahs... I personally would shoot for the RMC2 or 3, just due to the tweakability- you can get many many sounds out of them and really fit it to your rig. Excellent. +1 on this

    compressor -- +1 on the Barber. You can definitely get that "sustain" you want and keep your natural attack (but maybe not as much sustain as another compressor). The beauty is you can completely use it as a compressor, to completely a clean boost and anything in between. I run mine blended about 2 o'clock which is a clear attack, but immediate compression with good sustain. I would recommend it over a semour duncan. My second compressor is a Boss CS3 modded by Monte Allums. Very smooth optical compressor--- just still has some bypass issues. But its awesome if you use it as an "always on". Stock CS3 sucked....
    My review: http://lespaulplayerdoctor.wordpress.com/2008/11/01/the-barber-tone-press-compressor-review/
    micro pog --

    some EH users on their forum like to use this early in the chain to improve tracking stability. any thoughts? before or after wah, before or after compressor?

    -- i would use it - wah-compressor- pog. Keep your volume/sound consistent without sonic fluctuations.

    voodoo labs micro vibe --Nice pedal--- I love it, but don't have a use for it.

    various dirt
    the tube screamer modeler in the multifx was interesting -- was my first experience with a TS kind of character and i understand now about the mid hump - but rather thin in the modeler. might add a better all around TS808 type unit, doesnt have to be boutique.

    There is nothing like a good Tubescreamer- love them or hate them- they will always have a place. I cannot recommend any more highly than the Analoman TS9 mod to vintage specs. Wonderful and smooth, no harshness.

    a big muff is definitely a sound i want to add ! will probably go with wicker or LBM.

    My favorite muff sound was an accident. My teen brother bought a cheap "Lil' Big Muff" and I played it. Loved it and bought it. I believe its about 50 bucks new.
    I only recently replaced it with a Hartman Fuzz. If you love the Muff sound, but want more harmonic undertones. more thickness, more layered sound--- get a good fuzz. Muff is a good starting point though ;)

    i also may need something just a hair beyond clean boost ; the TTC rhythm side might can work in this mode, however the TTC has a fairly muscular character that i love and may not work for what im hearing in this particular app, which needs something a tad less drivey with a bit more sparkle and transparency. A Tim would be nice, but seems a bit pricey for a tone that while specific and necessary, i may not need much. Might go with the danelectro TOD for bang for buck,but am wrestling with the ethical issues re its design vs. Tim.

    I have used a Dano Tremolo for years. No problems. Nothing to lose by getting the transparent drive. You might like it, and can buy 2 and still not spend 1/2 of the Tim. Yeah, have a backup. Good choice ;)
    That said, I might go with the Timmy (smaller version of Tim) I think its $120 now. It might fit your rig better.
    Downside is that it will take a while (up to 6 months to build) so you probably want to get the Dano first so you can have a similiar sound while you wait.
    Also considering one of the Barbers for this app but really dont know which model would be best.

    questions for those with far more OD experience than I: anything in the above dirt options that im duplicating or wouldnt need ? best way to stack those? anything you see in the above that could cover more than one of the options? i.e., would the right unit cover both TS territory and light hairy boost?

    A TS can be dialed down and be great for that rich sound a light boost-- unless you are talking about using them side by side....
    I would stack dano/tim- TS9- Muff/Fuzz
    You should be able to get a great "hair" sound with the Dano/Tim, then if you stack it with the TS9--- great creamy rich leads. The Muff/Fuzz can stand on their own, but with the Dano or TS9 going into it you can get it smoothed out different ways.

    modulation -- set here -- have a nice non warbly chorus in the boss DC3.
    no probs here--- i just like the Analogman Chorus more. Actually I don't like chorus, but this is a good choice ;)

    delay/verb/other --- if you don't have many needs here: The Line 6 Verbzilla is awesome at getting you the delay you want. Cannot recommend it enough for its ambiance sounds.
    The Line 6 Echo park is a great basic delay-- WITH TAP TEMPO!!! And you can get vintage sounds, digital delays, tape delays and dotted eights out of it. If you need anything more than this, I am partial to my Boss DD20. But on my small board I used the Echo Park. Very nice. Tap tempo is must for me-- thats why I push this one.

    The Verbzilla and Echo park combo, or the DD20 alone... all can get very atmospheric and experimental. I personally don't like the memory man, and at one point it lacked tap temo. For the money, I like the basic choices here better ;)



    Looper/whammy-- i love the digitech whammy. Good choice there. The basic boss looper (RC2? ) is great for the basics. It also has drum loops in it. Could be useful for the experimental sounds. I use it to practice by.

    finally -- need a tuner; need good suggestions on powering this all up. also, if you see any pitfalls re impedance, buffer, bypass issues in the above proposed layout, please let me know.

    people here are passionate about their tuners. I have used several and like my Boss TU2 best (GASP!).

    For powering the rig: I use the Visual Sound One Spot on my small board. Its basically a power outlet with up to 8 9v connectors. I have never had problems. Some people don't like them because the outlets aren't isolated and you can't run pedals at more than 9v etc.....
    Some hate it because they swear it gives them hum. I haven't had any of these problems. Except hum when I connected a DD20, a RT20 and a Line 6 DL4. (But it warns against using more than one modeler!) One modelerer--- no probs.
    I also like the Vood Laps pedal power. It has the outputs, the sag feature and the ability to use more than 9v to select pedals. Very tasty.

    i know this was long, but i thank you all in advance for your collective wisdom and ideas!

    I had fun, and hope I helped in some slight way!
     
  15. Bobster

    Bobster Supporting Member

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    hmm, from a non-boutique but value for money point of view.

    RMC1 - I have this as well ,great for single coils
    Compressor - Barber Tone Press
    Dirt- For the TS808 hump, just get the TS808 reissue, TS9 with AM Silver mod for more gain.
    Modulation- You may wanna get Multi-efx for this to cut costs. Suggestions: Try TC Electronics or if u're just going for analog chorus, you can combine it with a analog delay like the EHX DMM.
    Delay- EHX DMM if you're in need of a chorus as well.
    Tuner- Korg Pitchblack

    For boutique:

    RMC1- Still great, boutique nonetheless.
    Compressor- Keeley Compressor/Analogman Bi-Comp or Comp
    Dirt- Lovepedal Eternity/Landgraff LDO/Vintage TS808(Original) All of this are pricy yet very ts808-like.
    Modulation- Eventide Modfactor
    Delay- Empress Superdelay,Eventide Timefactor,Maxon AD999,Malekko etc.. Depends what you're really after.
    Tuner- Peterson Strobostomp 2 or Turbotuner

    Just some thoughts to help you out :)
     
  16. norumba

    norumba Member

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    thanks doctor, bobster for the input - really helps to build consensus and views here...


    quick question re the above: what would be some options in using my existing TTC in this mix?

    thx again,
    sd
     
  17. norumba

    norumba Member

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    *bump* for an update and a question:

    wondering how to optimize the current TTC and consolidate some of the options, at least a little; seems like the TTC + Muff + Tim or other light boost + TS9 are a lot of drives for one board.

    So for now, im going to spend some serious time with the TTC the rest of the developing rig and the new amps. I used the ttc only once in the new stereo amp setup before it blew; now that the TTC replacement is here, i want to see what flexibility it offers up with the amps and the RMC /DC3, which are also new current additions, but not tested all together yet.

    that should answer some questions. The question if it doesnt, is to look for a second dual unit that can offer a neutrally light boost on one side and drive a TS type side as well. Seems like the Tim could almost be configured like that via some of its tone circuitry options, but I hope someone can confirm or deny . May revisit some of those Visual Sound options.

    Some TS aspects are starting to appeal to me, particularly how it dances with wah; even with my digitech rp250 i got some of the strangest, interesting sounds to date with its on board wah going into its 808 model then light chorus/delay/verb.I ll post a clip in a day or two.

    have a rehearsal tomorrow, that should yield some answers.

    one other thing -- wheres a good source to order Barber pedals (tone press)? GC online doesnt have them, are there some more boutique-ish online places people trust here and like to order from?

    thanks again everyone -- keeping adding 2 cents worth and ll keep ya posted.
     
  18. norumba

    norumba Member

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    quick post- rehearsal report:

    TTC on the rhythm channel worked nicely in the hair above clean/light crunch role, very transparent and articulate. i didnt like the lead channel as much with the new rig -- seemed brighter than i remember, and maybe lost some mids-- but it may take some more time to dial in. some moments on it had potential, though, so i think its there if i dig/tweak a little more..Didnt have a lot of time to knob tweak, but maybe after tomorrow's rehearsal.

    running it into stereo blackhearts: amps set about ( using clockface analogy) 9:30, treble about 9, mids and bass about 10ish.

    i'll experiment with goosing the amp tone controls and TTC's lead channel volume/gain mix and see if i can dial back in some of what i think is lacking.
    if I cant get the right distorto tone from the lead side , i can see setting it up as a step beyond the rhythms settings ( or else using the rhythm channel as pure clean boost and lead channel as light crunch) and using the unit overall to into something else.

    question will be what should it goose? :)

    RMC1 was stellar - rich , clear, warm, throaty, perfect smoothness, very nice for my set up and tuning. Treadle sweep very different from what my foot is used to, but that will come together in time.

    hated the microvibe: liked the effect's effectiveness but it colored the tone horribly. Ran it between wah and ttc. Could put it post-dirt tomorrow, but if that doesnt help, this puppy's out.

    stillusing the rp250 for mods/delay/verb at the moment. will bring the se50 and dc2 tomorrow,s ee what that does.

    still looking for an answer to last night's bump --- good source for Barber stuff?

    chime on in, y'all!
     
  19. lespauldoc

    lespauldoc Member

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    sorry mate... busy weekend and midterms for a guy in med school ;)

    Barber stuff: i love. love, love proguitarshop.com
    They also post demo vids of most of their stuff. I would buy from them. I personally have spent about a grand there in the last 6 months. Great company. Definitely tune in a check out their video demo of the Tone Press to see how it works. You'll love it ;)
    Or, buy directly from Barber: www.barberelectronics.com

    I haven't bought directly from him... but check out his "dual descrete" package. He combines 2 of his drives etc.. into one box for you- to your order. So you may be able to get a Tubescreamer feel drive, and a light boost, or a mix of "soft" and "hard" drives. Definitely something to check into. They email back pretty quick, so throw him a line

    Other than that, Analogman is combining his Maxon OD-9 mod (which is a Tubescreamer as maxon was the original company to produce it for Ibanez) with a clean boost added to it. It fits in ONE normal size Tube screamer box and its True bypass etc. The boost and the TS side can be used independent, so it works great. link: http://www.buyanalogman.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AM-MAXON-OD-9-MODS
    downside is that its $280.. but it is two pedals in one and its modded. So great tone.

    I don't think you can get a "clean boost" AND a "TS-drive" out of a Tim. Its designed to work as a drive that boosts it a tad more dirty. Just my two cents.
    And yeah, you may like the Visual Sound "Double Trouble" which is two Tubescreamer clones stacked. You can make one clean, and one dirty and get a decent sound. OR the Visual Sound "route 66" has a compressor one side and a TS clone the other. Same thing- clean boost with as little or as much compression as you want, and TS for dirt. It should play well with a Tone Press for some nice clean, yet sustainy tones as you talked about earlier with the fretless.

    Agree with the vibe--- you might like it after the dirt. I doubt it played well after the wah. Kinda sucked the tone, and ate certain frequencies, huh?
    And again, for reverb: I love the Line 6 Verbzilla. But thats just me giving free advice.

    Let me know if that helped and if I missed a question. Best of luck playing!
    BTW, I would love to see a pic of the fretless if you get around to posting. It sounds like a sweet harp.
     
  20. norumba

    norumba Member

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    hi doc,


    (smacks head) duh! pro guitar shop!!!

    been watching their videos a lot lately --- yep, i saw the barber one -- guess i should actually go check out their site, lol...

    current thinking is setting up the ttc as a two stage boost into a ts9 type and/or maybe something heavier.... VS stuff seems interesting to me, thanks for the details. whats the heavier syde of the jekyll/hyde like?


    thats exactly it, in a huge way, even when the wah wasnt engaged. Path was guitar - wah - vibe- TTC- rp250 - amps.

    seems odd to put the vibe as very first in the chain, but maybe thats what it'll take...


    the custom fretless is being worked on again at the moment,but heres a pic:
    [​IMG]

    Im working with th vigier now while the custom is being tweaked:
    [​IMG]

    i posted links to some recent tracks over on that forum....

    thanks again for all the input (good luck on midterms!)
     

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