Original Fender headstocks

Discussion in 'The Small Company Luthiers' started by Stefanhotrod, Mar 31, 2020.

  1. Stefanhotrod

    Stefanhotrod Member

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    Why are some allowed to use the original Fender headstock on their copys (Nashguitars, Nachoguitars)???
     
  2. The_Bell

    The_Bell Member

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    Licensing.
     
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  3. Stefanhotrod

    Stefanhotrod Member

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    So screw on a Musikraft neck (Nacho) or Allparts (Nash) and you‘re allowed to start a business with your builts?
     
  4. The_Bell

    The_Bell Member

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    If you are aware of what certain builders use - didn't you answer your question?

    I can't speak for Fender or the builders you mention. As far as myself, if I build a partscaster I am certainly allowed to sell it at a later date. I could do that once in a year, or a thousand times (if I really wanted to).
     
  5. Stefanhotrod

    Stefanhotrod Member

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    Of course you can. But e.g. with an original Telecaster headstock?
    I thought those licensed necks from Allparts, Musikraft or Warmoth are only allowed to use for private use, or am I wrong?
     
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  6. K-Line

    K-Line Vendor

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    You cannot sell a guitar with a Fender headstock. Now that is the law. However, Fender does not pay attention to this type of sale. But if you start building them to sell they can and will find you eventually. Nash has a license to use the shape. Not sure about Nacho. I have fielded calls from people who built 3-4 a year for sale and were sued by Fender. They no longer warn people like they did us years ago.
     
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  7. The_Bell

    The_Bell Member

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    Interesting - I would be curious if your first sentence applies to something described and sold exactly as what it is?

    There is no explicit "not for resale" or similar language stamped on licensed parts - i find it difficult to believe Fender would pursue someone selling 3 or 4 items identified as "Warmoth parts tele" on reverb. I could absolutely see it if an unlicensed neck were used, and adding a logo seems far murkier - which may be what you are referring to wrt permission in addition to utilizing the licensed part.
     
  8. Stefanhotrod

    Stefanhotrod Member

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    Very interesting. Babooshka guitars here in germany also uses the original headstock on their T-types, same with Danocaster in the US. I‘m sure a license from Fender isn‘t easy to get/cheap. Strange thing, you‘ve already paid a license fee if you’re buying, let’s say, a Fender-type Warmoth neck.
     
  9. Teleplayer

    Teleplayer Moder8er Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Danocaster, once past the "Freakin" era, did not use a Fender headstock clone for its T-style of S-style guitars. They used necks from USACG, which both (T & S) have notches/tweaks in them - they are not Fender headstock clones.
     
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  10. Stefanhotrod

    Stefanhotrod Member

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    You‘re right, I was wrong concerning the Danocaster.
     
  11. smolder

    smolder Gold Supporting Member

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    Fender went out of business well after CBS sold them. The company was essentially dissolved. Investors got together and bought portions of the holdings, including the name and various other IP. As they wrapped up, some things were protected, others not. I’m not a copyright expert, but I’ve been told that if you don’t protect IP, it sets a precedent that can create public domain or ownership. At that point it comes down to a court battle, who has deeper pockets, and more attorneys.
     
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  12. Teleplayer

    Teleplayer Moder8er Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    As a brilliant attorney friend of mine says, you find out the worth of your patent when you defend it in court.
     
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  13. K-Line

    K-Line Vendor

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    I would not have thought they would either. They tend to heat up when they are preparing for a credit extension or possible public offering. Also, they have to defend themselves in order to keep their patents relevant. I dealt first hand with them for a year. It was crazy at times and I thought they were coming for everything I owned until they realized that I was an LLC I suppose. Then they realized you cannot squeeze blood from a turnip. I tried to find the language of the actual license. It is on the hangtag of the Allparts necks when you buy them.
     
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  14. jvin248

    jvin248 Member

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    .

    The other way to look at the situation .. as a boutique builder do you want to advertise your brand, so others come to you looking for your product, or another company's brand for the hard work you do?

    Make your own headstock.

    .
     
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  15. The_Bell

    The_Bell Member

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    There are one or two people on TGP that have expressed something to the effect of: "I would love to try and like a (Suhr, Tyler, etc) but can't get past the headstock". That is an issue, not for the builders but for the consumers. I guess it proves the point that Fender has inherent brand value in their shapes.
     
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  16. Stefanhotrod

    Stefanhotrod Member

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    Yup, a Telecaster with a non-Telecaster headstock looks completely wrong.
     
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  17. Surfreak

    Surfreak Member

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    Of course, the elephant in the room is how come Fender was unable to trademark the S and T body styles...

    This loophole, or better, Fender's lack of legal savvy back in the day, has effectively facilitated the whole "S and T - inspired" guitar industry. Probably for the better in terms of the guitar buying community, but probably something Fender still regrets...

    Back to the headstock design, from what I have seen there is still a grey area around some builders.
    Nacho clearly offers an identical Fender shape, yet nothing in a Nacho guitar says "licensed by Fender". Some self-proclaimed cognoscenti say that Nacho got permission by Fender to do so, but I doubt that a corporation like Fender would give a private individual permission to profit from their design just because they are nice...

    Likewise, Nash also offers an identical Fender design, but I don't know whether his necks are hot stamped "licensed by Fender", like Warmoth does.
     
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  18. K-Line

    K-Line Vendor

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    I do not think they have to as they are not sold individually, bit as a licensed complete guitar. If he started selling just necks, then they would have to be stamped. Now I m not a lawyer but did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
     
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  19. Teleplayer

    Teleplayer Moder8er Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    At least IMHO, I think the Lentz headstock looks perfectly fine on a Tele-style body:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Theorist

    Theorist Supporting Member

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    It is a tasteful variation of the original design, a bit like a Tele and a Strat headstock mashup...
     

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