Outside playing tutorial(s)

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by jzucker, Apr 16, 2018.


  1. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    this started out as a quick demo of the boss SY300 but showcases a number of techniques including side-stepping, polyrhythms, dodecaphonics, etc. If anyone's interested I'll be happy to discuss in more detail.

     
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  2. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

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    Nice Jack! Makes me want to hear you face-to-face, interacting with a drummer.
     
  3. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    Thanks, here's one recently from a gig:



     
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  4. BriSol

    BriSol Member

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    Curious about some of what you're doing. At first it sounds like normal pentatonic-ish side-stepping, but you also seem to be moving around intervalic patterns chromatically. I do a little bit of that sometimes too. It's just hard to know how to resolve it sometimes.
     
  5. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    I have a series of youtube articles on outside playing:



    I use a number of techniques that involve
    1. chromatic stepping
    2. dodecaphonics (https://www.sheetsofsound.net/single-post/2017/08/22/Dodecaphonics)
    3. parallel intervallic displacement
    4. metric-meter displacement
    5. sequential forward motion
    6. odd-note-groupings, etc.
    7. Synthentic pentatonic scales (7b9, min6, Maj7#5, 7sus4)
    I'll discuss these in this thread or a series of threads.

    For # 5:

    The technique I am currently working on expanding in my own playing is a variation of side-stepping combined with sequential forward motion. Hal Galper has a video and book out about forward motion but it basically revolves around taking groupings of 4 notes but starting them on the end of the previous beat instead of right on the beat. So the 2nd note of the pattern falls on the downbeat. I have been working on taking pentatonics or triads in forward motion and applying various side stepping techniques to them.

    For example, over G7

    Pentatonics:
    | Dmin pentatonic | Ebmin Penatonic | F#min Pentatonic | Dbmin Pentatonic |

    Triads:
    | F | Gb | A Triad | E Triad |

    i could play 8 notes of each or 4 notes of each depending on the harmonic rhythm.

    I also do a variation of the forward motion where I play groupings of 5, 6 or 7 note groupings with the pentatonics and/or triads.

    I have recently been trying to get more of the synthetic pentatonic scales under my fingers and I will augment the above example using the synthetic pentatonics.
     
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  6. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

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    More porridge please. That's great!
     
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  7. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    Another thing to keep in mind with pentatonics and triads is that the reason they sound so good when moved around against the key is that they are easily recognized patterns. Outside playing with recognizable patterns tend to sound more acceptable to even untrained ears than pseudo-random chromatics. The movement of pentatonics and triads against the root is something that Brecker, McCoy Tyner and Pat Metheny regularly employ. If you transcribe their outside playing you will see that a huge portion of their repertoire in these areas comes from chromatics and triads.
     
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  8. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    @jzucker
    Great stuff as always. Now come on Jack. Do a take on Solar in that thread. I would love to hear it. You have always been one of the best players on here. Miss you and your killer photography on FB. Seriously.
     
  9. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    One of the keys in this technique is pivoting. There are two ways to pivot.

    In the first method, you take a common inside note over the first chord and pivot to a new tonal center that shares the same note

    For example, over Gmin7, pivot off of the 7th (F) from G Minor pentatonic into the Ab Major Pentatonic

    Bb C D F Eb C Bb Ab

    The second method pivots into a new key off of the inside note into an outside note in a different tonal center.

    For example, over Gm7, pivot off of the 7th (F) from the G Minor Pentatonic up to the Gb of the Ab Minor Pentatonic

    Bb C D F Gb Eb Db Cb

    As always, these will sound better with forward motion, i.e. starting the phrase on the & of 4 or 1.
     
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  10. StevenA

    StevenA Member

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    Dodecaphonics is cool!
     
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  11. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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  12. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    Here's another example of some of these concepts in use.

     
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