P&W Rigs/Pedalboards

addisonnyle

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2,536
On another note, my new Mastermind PBC 6X was just delivered to me 10 minutes ago, so I'm pretty much set to start putting together my new pedalboard build! I'll be starting that ASAP, though I won't be able to really jump in until after the 18th, since I'm already scheduled to play then.
Is it true that a) it can send BPM to pedals (in my case DD5 and DMMTT) and b) that it’s now capable of 9 loops??
 

josiahmac

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Messages
72

-Empire

Supporting Member
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5,970
That’s great! What gear we talking here?
tele > Helix > USB into Logic. No post processing or anything, not even a mic preamp plugin. Helix preset is 4 blocks: (1) DC30 channel 2 (EF86 channel) > (2) 212 H30 cab (R121 ribbon mic) + 212 G25 cab (57 mic) > (3) tiny bit of delay > (4) tiny bit of room reverb.

Not even any high/low cuts on the cab block. So the dry amp tone is 2 blocks, which obviously would only take up two of the HX Stomp's 6 blocks, if you were more inclined that direction.


This isn’t exactly on topic but any recommendations for bass preamps for running direct in church P&W environment? We are using a sansamp box right now and not super happy with the tones we are getting from our bassists... I would describe it as muddy and boomy.
HX Stomp crushes on bass.
 
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littleNUKE393

Member
Messages
314
This isn’t exactly on topic but any recommendations for bass preamps for running direct in church P&W environment? We are using a sansamp box right now and not super happy with the tones we are getting from our bassists... I would describe it as muddy and boomy.
Mesa Boogie Subway DI, absolutely fantastic piece of gear for a bass player
 

crambone

Member
Messages
17,947
It's funny that we are discussing service times. My church is adding a third service starting next month. We have a large college contingent so we'll run 3 services from September until May and back-down to 2 for the summer when the kids go home.

Right now we are 0930 + 1100 with a call time of 0800.
The new service times are going to be 0900 + 1030 + 1200 and I am guessing the call time will simply be 30 minutes earlier at 0730 but I haven't heard for sure.

I don't have a problem getting up / getting to practice 30 minutes earlier because I am generally up around 0700 anyway on the weekends (2 young kids that do not yet know the joy of sleeping-in) so I'm good there. At my old church we had Thursday night practices as well as a quick "run-through" at 0830 (before Sunday school at 0915) and that got to be a bear. No click or tracks (which in and of itself isn't a big deal but it meant that nothing was as easy to start/stop), people shuffling music around on their music stands, lots of idle chatter between songs. We literally stretched-out what should've been a 30-minute rehearsal to dang-near 2 hours sometimes. I much prefer the way we do it now where each person learns their shiz and comes together on Sunday mornings to get tight.
 

Playpunk

Member
Messages
1,715
Wow, those do sound really good. Normally, I don't like pristine cleans (unless the piece calls for it) but these sound really good.

I bought that pack last week but haven't had a chance to play with it.

If you like AC style amps, get his Matchbox pack too. I was one of his testers for that pack and it's great.
I usually don’t love totally clean tones but these just sounded fantastic to me.

I have that pack, and I need to work up some performances with it. I honestly haven’t spent much time with it yet.
 
Messages
11,211
It's funny that we are discussing service times. My church is adding a third service starting next month. We have a large college contingent so we'll run 3 services from September until May and back-down to 2 for the summer when the kids go home.

Right now we are 0930 + 1100 with a call time of 0800.
The new service times are going to be 0900 + 1030 + 1200 and I am guessing the call time will simply be 30 minutes earlier at 0730 but I haven't heard for sure.

I don't have a problem getting up / getting to practice 30 minutes earlier because I am generally up around 0700 anyway on the weekends (2 young kids that do not yet know the joy of sleeping-in) so I'm good there. At my old church we had Thursday night practices as well as a quick "run-through" at 0830 (before Sunday school at 0915) and that got to be a bear. No click or tracks (which in and of itself isn't a big deal but it meant that nothing was as easy to start/stop), people shuffling music around on their music stands, lots of idle chatter between songs. We literally stretched-out what should've been a 30-minute rehearsal to dang-near 2 hours sometimes. I much prefer the way we do it now where each person learns their shiz and comes together on Sunday mornings to get tight.
When I started we were doing 9am and 11am Sundays, 7:25 call time, I think. Thursday rehearsal.
Then we cut the Thursday rehearsal and went to 6:30 call time on Sundays. With three kids (one an infant) it can be a struggle but I decided right away I wasn’t going to let that keep me from serving.
You’re right, there’s that added sense of urgency to come in having your crap together Sunday morning that wasn’t always there with the Thursday night rehearsal. I think I still prefer the Thursday night, though, because it gave everyone a chance to identify and address any stuff we might need to work on before Sunday.
 

PianoMan

Supporting Member
Messages
721
Is it true that a) it can send BPM to pedals (in my case DD5 and DMMTT) and b) that it’s now capable of 9 loops??
1) I believe it can send BPM to at least most pedals (I'd research what you have to be sure). In the past I used my PBC 10 to send tempo to an ext. tempo modded Strymon Brigadier and it worked well enough. I will note that the PBCs handling of tempo is pretty basic, and not incredibly flexible if you need to change things on the fly without a computer. That's why I'm switching to using a Selah Quartz on my upcoming board.
2) It was actually updated so that you could have up to 11 individually controlled mono loops! The stereo loops (there are three of them, plus a stereo insert loop) can now be split into two mono loops apiece. Genius idea IMO. I'll be using that to get a little extra control on my new pedalboard as well.
 
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11,211
To me the best part of a mid-week rehearsal is not the music, it is the more relaxed atmosphere to connect with fellow team members. The relationship building is the best, there typically isnt the same opportunity to connect on Sunday's in my experiences.
Absolutely. Thursdays we would break off and have small group prayer and chat, then get to rehearsing. Plenty of time to stop and address any needed improvements. Just not as much time for that Sunday mornings (even with the too-early call time).
 

josiahmac

Member
Messages
72
Stock 2x12 (open back, mismathed speakers), JJ's tubes, D'addario EXL's, Gravity Picks, probably a protein shake... Suhr Tele with stock pickups or Voodoo TE59's... :D

Seriously though, no secrets, you should be able to get there with pretty much any Tele, and the EF86 channel on an AC30. The only think that might take some work would be the speakers in the Matchless cab (a G12H and a G12M).
What gauge strings you play?
 

addisonnyle

Member
Messages
2,536
1) I believe it can send BPM to at least most pedals (I'd research what you have to be sure). In the past I used my PBC 10 to send tempo to an ext. tempo modded Strymon Brigadier and it worked well enough. I will note that the PBCs handling of tempo is pretty basic, and not incredibly flexible if you need to change things on the fly without a computer. That's why I'm switching to using a Selah Quartz on my upcoming board.
2) It was actually updated so that you could have up to 11 individually controlled mono loops! The stereo loops (there are three of them, plus a stereo insert loop) can now be split into two mono loops apiece. Genius idea IMO. I'll be using that to get a little extra control on my new pedalboard as well.
Hot dang! Man that’s incredible they were able to expand it to 11 loops. Absolutely nuts!!

So say I have 3 delays and each with only do its particular subdivision. In terms of tempo, if I split the RJM’s outs and fed each delay (assuming the NO/NC was correct for each pedal) then it should in theory work okay? How hard is it to change BPM for a particular song in a preset?
 

PianoMan

Supporting Member
Messages
721
Hot dang! Man that’s incredible they were able to expand it to 11 loops. Absolutely nuts!!

So say I have 3 delays and each with only do its particular subdivision. In terms of tempo, if I split the RJM’s outs and fed each delay (assuming the NO/NC was correct for each pedal) then it should in theory work okay? How hard is it to change BPM for a particular song in a preset?
Changing tempo for a song is simple through the editor. Doing so on the fly through the setup menu requires a little too much menu diving for my tastes, but it's easy enough. The tricky bit is in how it handles sub-divisions. It can do one subdivision for all MIDI pedals, and another for all (up to 2) pedals connected to a function jack. If you want more division beyond that, then you need to set up the pedal to do its own subdivisions.

In the end, while it is perfectly usable for basic applications, I was needing to change tempo enough on the fly that I decided to make the switch to using the Selah Quartz for tempo duties on the new board. It's much more adept at handling tempo changes on the fly, plus it can do different subdivisions for every pedal. In addition, since I got a V3, I can use it to forward MIDI data from the PBC through two of its TRS jacks (which will be handy when I eventually pick up the Jackson Audio Bloom V2).
 

MattLeFevers

Member
Messages
1,942
This isn’t exactly on topic but any recommendations for bass preamps for running direct in church P&W environment? We are using a sansamp box right now and not super happy with the tones we are getting from our bassists... I would describe it as muddy and boomy.
I'd agree with the others that it might just take some more dialing in. Sansamp is a classic piece of gear that professionals way better than me absolutely rely on, so this is one of the cases where I'm not sure 'replace it with a boutique such-and-such' is the answer. (I've recently taken to avoiding the P&W Bassist group on Facebook specifically because any time someone asks for a recommendation, the suggestions quickly go down a weird rabbit hole of insisting you need some handmade $1000 preamp or your bass will never sound good.)

They probably just need to learn to EQ it properly. I use a Sansamp VT Bass and get decent results with that.
I also use the VT Bass DI and have for four years now. I like it enough that I convinced my last church to buy one, so that the bass players other than me could use it too.

I'm not sure how much the VT differs from the regular Sansamp - two of the controls are different, including the Character knob that I use a lot on the VT - but typically I keep the treble cranked up pretty far and the Drive knob at at least 10 o'clock, which helps it have some grit and personality instead of being muddy and boomy.

If all else fails, I have heard good things about running a bass through an HX Stomp or something. It seems like overkill to me to get something that expensive and powerful just to use as a bass DI but if somebody already had one I'd definitely be curious to try it. Atomic just (finally) added a bass amp to the Amplifire - an Ampeg model - so an Ampli-Firebox would also not be out of the question if you wanted to do the modeling thing. I can't vouch for that one yet, I downloaded it to my Amplifire but haven't plugged my bass into it for a test run yet.

In my experience, running a DI or Sansamp is way more the norm for a live bass than mic'ing a bass cab, so as much as I love guitar amp modeling it's not the first place my mind would go for a bass, but... it does probably sound good.
 

kingrazor

Member
Messages
3,704
I also use the VT Bass DI and have for four years now. I like it enough that I convinced my last church to buy one, so that the bass players other than me could use it too.

I'm not sure how much the VT differs from the regular Sansamp - two of the controls are different, including the Character knob that I use a lot on the VT - but typically I keep the treble cranked up pretty far and the Drive knob at at least 10 o'clock, which helps it have some grit and personality instead of being muddy and boomy.
I personally run the drive at about 1 o clock, but I run the blend at about noon, to bring some of the clean low end back in. I have the bass cut a little, the treble about noon, and the mids boosted a bit (about 1 o clock)
 

jtwguitar

Member
Messages
63
I'd agree with the others that it might just take some more dialing in. Sansamp is a classic piece of gear that professionals way better than me absolutely rely on, so this is one of the cases where I'm not sure 'replace it with a boutique such-and-such' is the answer. (I've recently taken to avoiding the P&W Bassist group on Facebook specifically because any time someone asks for a recommendation, the suggestions quickly go down a weird rabbit hole of insisting you need some handmade $1000 preamp or your bass will never sound good.)



I also use the VT Bass DI and have for four years now. I like it enough that I convinced my last church to buy one, so that the bass players other than me could use it too.

I'm not sure how much the VT differs from the regular Sansamp - two of the controls are different, including the Character knob that I use a lot on the VT - but typically I keep the treble cranked up pretty far and the Drive knob at at least 10 o'clock, which helps it have some grit and personality instead of being muddy and boomy.

If all else fails, I have heard good things about running a bass through an HX Stomp or something. It seems like overkill to me to get something that expensive and powerful just to use as a bass DI but if somebody already had one I'd definitely be curious to try it. Atomic just (finally) added a bass amp to the Amplifire - an Ampeg model - so an Ampli-Firebox would also not be out of the question if you wanted to do the modeling thing. I can't vouch for that one yet, I downloaded it to my Amplifire but haven't plugged my bass into it for a test run yet.

In my experience, running a DI or Sansamp is way more the norm for a live bass than mic'ing a bass cab, so as much as I love guitar amp modeling it's not the first place my mind would go for a bass, but... it does probably sound good.
I personally run the drive at about 1 o clock, but I run the blend at about noon, to bring some of the clean low end back in. I have the bass cut a little, the treble about noon, and the mids boosted a bit (about 1 o clock)
Thanks for the quick responses. We have the sansamp BDDI pedal DI, not the VTI. Will spend some more time with it in the coming Sundays working with our bassists. It looks like there are some people who definitely prefer the VTI over the BDDI, but agree is sounds like we should be able to get some usable tones out of the BDDI....
 

crambone

Member
Messages
17,947
When I first started going to my church they still used a bass amp running an XLR output on-stage but now he uses the Sansamp Bass Driver DI straight to the snake via XLR.

Only 2 of us guitarists (there are 6 total in rotation now) go direct and both of us use Helix Floor models. The other guitarists still mic their amps backstage. When myself and the other Helix user play the only thing not going direct are the drums so that's nice.
 




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