PA Speakers for rehearsal rooms?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by y0ud, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. y0ud

    y0ud Member

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    Hello

    curious as to peoples experiences with speakers for rehearsal scenarios.

    I run 4 rooms that for the past 4 years have survived well with the EV Sx100 speakers (http://www.electrovoice.com/family.php?id=22). They have lasted quite well, had to replace 3 voice coils (within warranty period, but of course, not covered by warranty) in total now and im thinking, over such heavy use, thats not to bad. BUT what do you think? Should speakers last longer then 4 years with heavy use? We were told that what blows the voice coils is clashing frequencies between low octave keyboards and vocal. We dont get mayn keyboards through the studios, but it is still a factor.

    I would like to go one size larger and get the 15inch model. We currently use Yamaha EMX312 Mixer.

    What speakers do you recommend?
     
  2. y0ud

    y0ud Member

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    geez do i need to put "vintage" or SUPER RARE infront of this topic to get an answer?!
     
  3. smolder

    smolder Gold Supporting Member

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    You might try posting in the "recording/live sound" forum.

    I really don't pay much attention to PA speakers... I just play guitar, but I prefer the tightness of 10's and 12's for most things including vocal monitors. I'm also old school and tend to stick with EV's And JBL's.
     
  4. Chicago Slim

    Chicago Slim Member

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    I've had good luck with Peavey's and Kustom's. I like to use full range 12's, and disconnect the horns. I don't want to reproduce the high a ferquencies.

    Also, try to work the name Van Halen, into the title. Or ask: "What would Van Halen do?"
     
  5. GCDEF

    GCDEF Supporting Member

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    I'd probably go for something with higher power handling than that. I think it's safe to say a lot of bands are going to go in there and turn everything up way too loud without caring whether they damage your equipment and with a 200 watt RMS rating, they're not going to take the kind of beating a lot of bands are likely to deliver.
     
  6. blackba

    blackba Supporting Member

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    I have a pair of EV SX300E's in my rehearsal room and they have held up great. If you are blowing that many speakers, you need to change your PA rig....
     
  7. freaksho

    freaksho Member

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    had a pair of JBL JRX115 for about 8 years in shared band spaces, which means multiple bands use them very week - very heavy use. never had any issues, i think they sound great and they look to be less money and more power handing than than your EV's. we also use them with a Yamaha powered mixer (EMX88s).

    and to answer your question, no i don't think it's ok for speakers to need replacement after 4 years of use withing their design limits. of course if you have been pushing them beyond their design limits that's another story.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2012
  8. bobwl

    bobwl Member

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    Yes only 4 years is pretty bad. A speaker should easily last decades if used correctly. Even then usually it's your cone or your surrounds that give out, not the voice coil.

    Looking at the specs your overloading your speakers. The speaker you have only runs 200 Watts RMS, your mixer is pushing 380. The 12" size isn't the issue, you could run an 8" speaker if you wanted as long as it's designed to handle the wattage.
     
  9. smolder

    smolder Gold Supporting Member

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    there is another aspect to this that is significant (going old school on you again), in my experience, anytime you run a power amp (even solid state) over half way, your introducing some distortion and artifacts that aren't good for either the speakers or your ears. Ear fatigue is more than just a volume thing.
     
  10. freaksho

    freaksho Member

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    it's 380W but that means it's 2x190W which i would think should be ok. it's not like tube amps where you routinely exceed the max rated power output.
     
  11. freaksho

    freaksho Member

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    that's true too. running a ss power amp into distortion will damage speakers regardless of their power rating. speakers don't tolerate ss amp distortion like they do for tube amp distortion. if that's happening then you need higher power speakers and a higher power PA. often the recommendation is to get amp rated higher than your speakers to be sure the first thing overloads in accidental situations is the speakers, which they can handle for brief periods.
     
  12. bobwl

    bobwl Member

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    Sorry my fault, I read it too quickly and thought it said 2x380.
     
  13. GCDEF

    GCDEF Supporting Member

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    And that's peak. Those speakers are 800 watts peak.

    OP says he runs rooms. If it's like rehearsal rooms I've used, it'll be full of metal heads bringing in their 100 watt stacks, diming them, then diming the PA to try to keep up. I'm really not surprised speakers are blowing at all. Maybe some decent powered speakers with good built in limiting would help.
     
  14. freaksho

    freaksho Member

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    good point. and that's one more bit of evidence that smolder's idea might just be what's happening here: that underpowered PA is being pushed into distortion and destroying speakers.
     
  15. y0ud

    y0ud Member

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    Fantastic! thanks for all the very useful and helpful replies!

    forum delivers!

    I was talking about the larger size more so to deal with the higher and lower frequencies as i was told that was what is blowing them. but alas, this is one area i know little about. The Emx512 pa systems we use can barely be pushed past unity (which is at 2 o'clock) and have heaps of room there volume/power wise. Its more of a feedback issue at that stage considering the rooms. Maybe that is something i should be taking into consideration also?

    its never really a problem of guitars being too loud, almost every case starts with the drummer hitting to hard and forcing the guitarists to crank there amps haha. either way it all starts with bad/unnecessary technique. Volume isnt a huge problem, although it would be nice to get them a little bit louder.


    so should i maybe be looking at other factors?

    to break it down,


    currently using emx512 yamaha mixers with 2 sx100 EV speakers
    Would like a little more volume
    face feedback issues when loud (especially with quite singers + loud drummers)
    blown 2 voice/magnetic coils
    was told it was due to clashing frequencies of keyboards and vocals
    cant really afford to spend $$$ at the moment, looking at similar price range, $500 per speaker'ish.
    am happy to fork out extra cash if there is a product that is worth it.
     
  16. Schafrocks

    Schafrocks Member

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    This is probably what's happening. Never heard of vocals and keyboard frequencies clashing before. For 500 per speaker, you should be able to get some pretty good speakers. We got some JBL MRX series with a 12 and horn and they kick all kinds of ass. As a matter of fact we use them live with 4 18"s and that's all we use for tops. They will fill up a pretty good size room. Very crisp and clear. I know you can get some of the higher quality mackies and Yorks in that price range as well. The key is going to be powering them properly. The better quality you get, the better the volume to feedback ratio. Given that they're EQ'ed properly. We are using some of the lower line peavey monitors with a 500 watt behringer powered board for practice and they work fine. We are pretty loud too.

    But we only put vocals in the monitors unless I use my modeler for practice. If you start pushing a bunch of distorted bass through them, your gonna smoke a voice coil. Especially if it's underpowered.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2012
  17. freaksho

    freaksho Member

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    wait, you're saying a few things that aren't consistent.

    - is it more than one powered mixer? you wrote 'mixers' and 'systems' in this post.
    - which model PA: 312 or 512? you've written both now.
    - forget the 'clashing frequencies' ********. you're either clipping the amp or overpowering the speakers, both if which will damage them. but it's very important you figure out which is happening because if you don't you're just gonna blow the next set too. your fist paragraph here seems to say that you have plenty of power left in the PA. if you're 100% sure you've never pushed the PA into distortion then you're overpowering the the speakers and a higher rated set will solve your issues.

    and i agree with Shafrocks: $500 per speaker is pretty generous so you should have no touble getting a great set once you figure out what your issue is.

    your feedback issue is one that everyone faces. i can't help you there because i am always wrestling with that too. maybe someone in the Live Sound / Recording forum can give you some tips. that's a whole topic unto itself. would love to hear about anything you learn in this area.
     
  18. y0ud

    y0ud Member

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    sorry about the mix up, i own the emx512 models. Nothing else to it, just emx512 to EX Sx100.

    And yes, the emx512's on the channel gain or the master rarely go above unity. No clipping happens.
     
  19. freaksho

    freaksho Member

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    there you go with the plural again. is it 'models' or 'model'? in other words, how many do you have?? lol. are you not a native english speaker or something? i mean absolutely no offense, but that would explain this repeated confusion.

    maybe i'm a dope, but i don't know what 'unity' means in this context. is that loud or quiet? anyway you have potentially 250W going to 100W speakers - i think your problem is solved. :)

    (i assume you have 1 PA going to 2 speakers, right?)
     
  20. y0ud

    y0ud Member

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    haha I have multiple rooms, therefor multiple emx512's. ONLY the emx512 model, no other PA units. Yes, each unit is connected to 2 sx100 speakers.

    unity is "0", before the pa gets to adds on its own gain. for these pa's unity is at 2 o clock, giving it up to 5 o clock to max out (plenty of space to add gain).
     

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