Palomino V16 & V32 - Same Preamp or Diff?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Todd Lynch, Jan 14, 2008.


  1. Todd Lynch

    Todd Lynch Member

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    I just picked up a V16 - needed a smaller amp for some things - I'm looking for a schematic for the preamp - I found one for the V32 - are these two amps built with the same preamp. I've read quite a few searched posts and have not found that particular answer.

    Any helps would be appreciated.

    Any comments on modifications to increase headroom, etc, would be appreciated as well. Any recomendations regarding favored speakers for this rig would be appreciated too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  2. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    Easiest way to increase headroom is to use a more efficient speaker. The stock 70/80 in my V32 was 98 db. Switching to a large magnet Celestion like a G12H-30 would give you a 2 db increase. While that doesnt seem like much its like adding 66% more power. For example a 3 db increase is like doubling the power output. This approach might seem extreme but its probably easier than extracting more headroom out of the amp. Bob
     
  3. Todd Lynch

    Todd Lynch Member

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    Thanks, Bob. I have a couple of spkrs to try in the amp and planned on doing so. I knew they came wiht the Seventy 80 and also know that I don't care at all for that speaker. I appreciate the info.
     
  4. Marshall Man

    Marshall Man Member

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    I bought a V16 last month and put a Celestion V30 in it as well as all JJ tubes; sounds alot smoother now. I thought the stock speaker sounded like total ****!
     
  5. OrangeAD30TC

    OrangeAD30TC The venerable H.W. Gold Supporting Member

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    Had one but sold it. It was a great amp ut i am getting married and I had to thin th music room a bit. 70/80 was harsh. I put an avatar Hellatone 30 in it (G12H30) and i never looked back. This amp not Voxy. To me it had a more american pristine clean sound and marshally growl. I chose the G12H30 because i wanted to stay away from a speaker with a mid hump because i didn't want to fight the voicing of the amp.

    Although I did use it for a short time with 2 V30's and prefered the G12H30 the V30's were new and stiff at the time. good luck
     
  6. soulohio

    soulohio Member

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    some info from Crate. i emailed them about my V16:

    The amp will benefit from the output transformer swap. It would also benefit some tube swaps, perhaps lower gain dual triodes like 12AT7, 12AY7, would help to control and "round" out the sound. Try them in the first 2 positions. That amp has a lot of gain, and you could toss some of it away. Then if it is still not "thick" enough, you could clip out C3. You may or may not need it depending on the type of pickup used, single or humbucker....
    If you don’t want to change the tone too much you can clip out C38, that will lower the gain slightly and smooth out the tone without affecting the freqresp too much.
    Speaker will also make a big difference. It is the final tone filter in the equation. Find the one with the freqresp that matches with the sound you are looking for. Vintage 30's are bright and nasty in the 1.6KHz range, I would not recommend one of these. A greenback is excellent, but maybe a little short on the bottom. Perhaps a Tone tubby might fatten it the best? I dunno, experiment.
    Speaker - final freq response filter.
    Tubes/circuit mods - gain, frequency response and amplifier to pick "feel"
    Transformer - Dynamic response, clarity improvements, headroom, clipping characteristic.

    Good luck and remember the warranty is void!!!!
    Obeid
     
  7. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    Obviously for your purposes the highest efficiency one that sounds right would be best. The Hellatone 30 (pre broken in G12H-30) suggestion would be a nice choice I bet. Fairly cheap from Avatar Speakers.

    I have the V32 and use a Tonespotter which I really like but Im not after more headroom. Bob
     
  8. Todd Lynch

    Todd Lynch Member

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    Thanks to all who've responded. The spkr suggestions are all good as well as SoulOhio's hard info on caps. And, I'll take a look at the Hellatone.

    I bought this amp today from the local GC - blow-out sale of $269 out the door, new in the box. Knowing I was going to pick it up today, I ordered a full complement of JJs (got 'em in my other amps).

    Got it home, opened it up, plugged straight in. It's surprisingly louder than I thought it would be. It has a much better/bigger tone (aka 'more in line w/my ears') than I thought it would have. I do not typically like EL84 amps and I knew this was what the V16 was going in - but I kind of dig it; very 'stratty' in that squeaky way.

    Will rehearse with it Wednesday night and will get a little better idea of everything. I'm playing a Strat and Tele into it.

    The reverb is pretty ******. I do have a long pan Accutronics 2 spring unit that I may try. I'm used to not having reverb w/my Bassman and like to play with a delay on all the time for faux-verb-ambience - so I don't really hate the 'verb that's in it... just won't be using it at all.

    The amp is physically pretty small... seems fairly odd to me since I've been hauling a twin-sized cab (or 412 halfstack) for many years - but the gig is the reason for the purchase, so... I usually mic my Bassman with a Senn 609, but have a Red Box - I may just install it inside the back of the cab, loop thru it and see if I can get a fatter/bigger sound out front with the cab/tone switch on the H&K unit - or not - experimentation will decide.

    Thanks again to all. I'll be playing with this for a bit, having fun with the newness of it, but getting to know it in my gigging situation. I'm sure as hell going to miss the loud/fat/boom of my Bassman - but it's just too much amp for what I'm doing... ugh.

    Cheers!
     
  9. Rod

    Rod Tone is Paramount Silver Supporting Member

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    Obeid...Hi...Did you design all these amps for Crate?? Nice work!!
     
  10. frankencat

    frankencat Gold Supporting Member

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    I have one of these and use it regularly for my P&W gig. It's actually a V15 but they are the same amp with different cosmetics. I set mine up with a V30 and stuck a Tung-Sol in V1 and a couple of (gasp) Sovtek WC's V2 & V3 and JJ's in the power section. I also have a beam blocker in it. This amp sounds pretty nice for what I use it for and has a wide range of sounds for a simple amp. The reverb sounds great to my ears and the amp has way more gain than I need so I basically run the master at 12:00 and use the gain for volume. I usually end up at around 10:00. The amp takes pedals real well and sounds much bigger with the V30. The best speaker I had in it was a Mojo BV25M which is their clone of a Celestion Greenback. That speaker absolutely ROCKED in this little amp and I am looking for another one. It's a great little amp for sure and it sounds like you got it for a great price to boot. Good stuff :)
     
  11. bluescube

    bluescube Member

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    I have the V32. The V16 is a single channel amp and the V32 is a two channel amp. I love mine and may try a speaker swap someday. The stocker is ok for now. The reverb is ok, but I may look into a sproingier one someday too. I love the creamy overdrive channel. What speaker might give a more mid dip to get a fendery tone?
     
  12. soulohio

    soulohio Member

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    I use a Celestion Blue in mine. Tube swaps to NOS-same spec are going to give very incremental results. That Blue gave a big difference...as well as the low gain in V1.
     
  13. bluescube

    bluescube Member

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    For my budget I think one of those warehouse speakers might be worth a try.

    Maybe the 12” British Lead™ speaker or 12” Green Beret™ speaker?

    http://warehousespeakers.com
     
  14. Todd Lynch

    Todd Lynch Member

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    I forgot about that spkr souce; thanks for the link.
     
  15. Todd Lynch

    Todd Lynch Member

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    Tonight I removed C38 and installed pair of JJ 12AT7s in V1 & V2. This made a striking difference in tone - far sweeter and smoother in all respects. I don't have any 16 Ohm spkrs - so the stock model is still with me. I must've swapped/sold them in the past yr or so.

    I ordered a set of JJ EL84s on the day I picked up the amp and will install them on arrival.

    This cab and chassis appears to be a reasonably hip kick-start to a custom build - turret-board-from-scratch type of thing.
     
  16. soulohio

    soulohio Member

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    did you lose alot of gain? there must be some reason why C38 is in there...and AT7's in BOTH positions? I change just V1 and it is quite a change...V2 not so much...
     
  17. mlj_gear

    mlj_gear Member

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    A while back I had a V16, and while I didn't end up keeping it, I did put a ceramic Tone Tubby in it, and it sounded much better that the stock speaker, especially in the low end and when driven hard. That was before I did a lot of speaker swapping, but I do remember that I was quite impressed by the difference that the switch made. Based on memory and subsequent experience, my guess is that a G12H30 or a Weber Silver Bell would also sound nice in it.
     
  18. bluescube

    bluescube Member

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    Anyone have a schematic for a V32?
     
  19. Todd Lynch

    Todd Lynch Member

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    Lost a ton of gain - exactly what I was looking for. the AT in V2 may have been overkill, but I'm basically looking for as much headroom as I can get. If the AT7 in V2 causes too much sparkle loss, I may go back to the 12AX7 in that position - if it's not a big deal, if I like it as is, the AT will stay.

    C38 is the decoupling cap for the second gain stage.

    I found a V16 schematic: http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/misc_amp/crate_v16_palomino.pdf

    There's likely a V32 avail; didn't see it this time out.
     
  20. popsongsmith

    popsongsmith Senior Member

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    Holy ****! That came from the COMPANY? If it did, that's truly astonishing.
     

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