Pat Martino - making the changes or generalising?

binge

Member
Messages
1,730
When Pat is playing, do you reckon he is outlining every change or do you think he is using a lot of generalisation in his lead lines?
 

Neer

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
13,162
Playing seamlessly over the changes, rather than through them, not outlining all the changes, but signaling harmonic events.
 

binge

Member
Messages
1,730
Playing seamlessly over the changes, rather than through them, not outlining all the changes, but signaling harmonic events.

Care to explain further? By harmonic events you mean key changes?
 

frdagaa

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,612
Going to see him at The Velvet Note in Atlanta in 10 days. It's an intimate venue (~40 seats) where I saw Scott Henderson and Larry Carlton this fall at an average seat to guitar distance of 12 feet.

I listen to Martino's music but his lines evade my general gestalted understanding without specific study/transcribing. Other than he tends to play quite linearly with a lot of chromatics. I get a sense that a lot of his chromaticisms are connecting notes rather than specifically chosen tonal colors.

I love this video for the playing all around, but it strikes me how guitaristic his playing is vs. Sco's saxophonic playing. I can here Sco's use of diminished sounds all over, and Martino seems to be doing a lot of heavily embellished, chromatized scalar passages, often from a pentatonic base.



Maybe I will get a better sense after hearing him live. Can't wait!
 

guitarjazz

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
25,236
Martino has been extraordinarily open about the 'behind the magic curtain trick' to his musical conception. His 'convert to minor' concept is the main method to his madness. It is in many ways very similar to the Lydian Chromatic Concept...which uses a 'convert to...' process for realizing linear expressions of vertical structures.
Martino's Linear Expressions book is a good place to start.
There are two Martino instructional DVD's that are rich with material. Be sure to have ronimusic.com Ultimate DVD Player or some other video slow-downer app 'cause although Pat's demonstrates many of the concepts....he doesn't spoon feed or slow them down. They are blazing.
The recent Truefire course is an amazing deal and resource. https://truefire.com/pat-martino/the-nature-of-guitar/c1002

Pat doesn't generalize anything.
Lastly, read his biography, Here and Now.
 
Last edited:

dewey decibel

…no, but I play one on TGP
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
11,497
When Pat is playing, do you reckon he is outlining every change or do you think he is using a lot of generalisation in his lead lines?

What do you mean by generalization? He's definitely not outlining every change, like a robot, if that's what you mean. But he's often implying more changes, or alternate changes. And he's often just playing one sound over a set of changes. All very common in jazz.
 

guitarjazz

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
25,236
Seems to me he's hitting every change when he wants to, but thankfully doesn't restrict himself to strictly vertical playing.


Cool. Didn't know there was an alternate take. My copy of the Consciousness CD, that Pat signed, doesn't have one.
 

MartinPiana

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,600
Going to see him at The Velvet Note in Atlanta in 10 days. It's an intimate venue (~40 seats) where I saw Scott Henderson and Larry Carlton this fall at an average seat to guitar distance of 12 feet.

I listen to Martino's music but his lines evade my general gestalted understanding without specific study/transcribing. Other than he tends to play quite linearly with a lot of chromatics. I get a sense that a lot of his chromaticisms are connecting notes rather than specifically chosen tonal colors.

I love this video for the playing all around, but it strikes me how guitaristic his playing is vs. Sco's saxophonic playing. I can here Sco's use of diminished sounds all over, and Martino seems to be doing a lot of heavily embellished, chromatized scalar passages, often from a pentatonic base.



Maybe I will get a better sense after hearing him live. Can't wait!


Man, wish they'd a let that video clip run to the end!
 

thesauce

Member
Messages
579
He has an entire algorithm of chord subs, many include unusual conversions to minor. He is also chromatic at times, but he's certainly playing as deliberately as any other jazz musician.
 

Crimson Queen

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,338
What do you mean by generalization? He's definitely not outlining every change, like a robot, if that's what you mean. But he's often implying more changes, or alternate changes. And he's often just playing one sound over a set of changes. All very common in jazz.

That's what I was hearing from the clip with Sco. He was playing more than the harmonic movements, not less.
 




Trending Topics

Top Bottom