Pats on the Back are cool, but . . .

Discussion in 'Member Video and Sound Clips' started by yZe, Feb 5, 2008.


  1. yZe

    yZe Senior Member

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    Let's get real, y'all

    Iron sharpens iron

    Yes, granted there are well done tunes put up by all here, and all I can say is good job - and that's it

    But don't you think that there are times when we should make the attempt to get deeper in thought and introspection of others' work and attempt to constructively criticize ?

    The last thing i would want is for me to put up a clip which I "think" is "o.k", when it really isn't, but then have people pat me on the back and say

    "good job, dude"

    I know that it's art, and there is not this cut and dry "good widget/bad widget" factory thing going on - but CONSTRUCTIVE criticism has gotten me to where I am today

    I
     
  2. Guitar Slinger6

    Guitar Slinger6 Member

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    I am in total agreement with you. There should be a place to post that others will critique you hard and honest but with the understanding it is to help you grow. That is how I like to be critiqued. But if thry really do like it Why? They should also critique it and tell in equall depth of why.

    Chris
     
  3. GDking

    GDking Member

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    Great job yZe awesome post.. Worded perfectly in my opinion, gets no better! This should really be read aloud and just mulled over by generations to come..

    GREAT POST!!

    :)
     
  4. Lucidology

    Lucidology Member

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    It's fun to exchange our viewpoints of course..
    But I totally dug your playing Geoff ...
    No critical words came to mind ... :BEER
     
  5. Guitar Slinger6

    Guitar Slinger6 Member

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    I agree there are times for social edicit and other times that should be for keeping it real. Maybe we can work out different ways to post. Regular post means comments but use social edicit. If you really want a true delve into your playing style or tone, then post it as "Help me Grow". I think most people are like me and do not want to delve into their playing without comfortably feeling that is what the player truly wants. This is how we grow. If we make this as a universal green light and courtesy post are not welcome in that format.

    What do you think?

    Chris

     
  6. Leucadian

    Leucadian Guest

    ...I think as a player, one definitely benefits from constructive criticism...I love to listen to people's clips on TGP...but I have no interest in critiquing them...I think most guys already know what they need to improve...who am I to tell them?

    ...besides, I like stuff that some people think is awful (especially learned guitarists), so I would be a bad critic...I like bad music and bad guitarists...:D

    ...I would like an area where folks post original tunes only...
     
  7. Guitar Slinger6

    Guitar Slinger6 Member

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    That would be great. A place for only original tunes. I LOVE that idea!
    I really like your idea alot. You should do it.

    Chris

     
  8. yZe

    yZe Senior Member

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    Yup, that, too !!


    Adds to the depth rather than just saying "cool playing"
     
  9. bluesmain

    bluesmain Member

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    As artist we seek out others that understand and can relate to our work. Often we write and perform trying to communicate our feelings thru a very subject medium music.
    Try as we do, often we fall short of getting it all out to our own satisfaction. I know sometimes that when I write a piece and listen back to it several years later, I some times wonder what the hell was I thinking in choosing that music for those lyrics or vice versa.
    The trick is to enjoy your own work and in doing so it usually gets better the more you bleed.( lol ) Make yourself happy with your efforts and everyone else will be amazed.
    To date, I have not done this. Back to the note book and keep praticing and playing.
    Someone mentioned eariler " get out of your comfort zone". Wise words indeed!
     
  10. KCWM

    KCWM Member

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    yZe, that's a great point.

    If I want a pat on the back, I'll ask my fiancée or roommate for their opinion. Most of the time, friends and family will simply say "yeah, that sounds pretty good" or "I like it". They, by nature, are supportive. It's one thing to coddle a child when they bring you a POS drawing. But it's another to let an adult down easy.

    That's why I posted a link here and on another forum. I want the opinion of strangers, who really feel no need to hold back an opinion. I want to be damaged. I know the recordings I post aren't top notch tone-wise or even as tight as they should be. But, the general idea of the song is there. Granted, this isn't the songwriter's page, but I think it's not too much of a stretch to ask for a judgment on songs. Granted, I don't really think the music I hit really resonates with the demographic that makes up the majority here, but I still respect and want the honest opinion of my fellow musicians, whether they are above or below my skill level.

    Which reminds me, I need to go back and listen to more of Squackles music.
     
  11. scottlr

    scottlr Member

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    If you want some real criticism, join www.garageband.com and you can do reviews for credit to upload your songs for review. The folks reviewing there are brutally honest about their opinions. It's pretty easy to dismiss the ones that hate your song because they don't like your kind of music, and just pay attention to the ones that do like your genre. And it's not all just musicians reviewing, though I suspect the majority are. But anyone at all can join and review for the fun of it.
     
  12. yZe

    yZe Senior Member

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    Scott, I signed up - looks cool

    good practice on listening/reviewing
     
  13. KCWM

    KCWM Member

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    Same here. I found this site the other day when i searched for a band containing people I went to highschool with. Back in the day, the guy could be a pretty good layne staley. Now, I'm not all that impressed.
     
  14. Birddog

    Birddog Member

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    I like to stick to encouraging comments. If I think a posted piece sucks, I don't write anything at all, and I think that speaks for itself. There are enough people out there to try to bring you down -- I just don't believe this is the place for it. For the most part, what I've seen here is that people post stuff that they are proud of, good or not. Again, I feel no need to tear them down if I don't like it.
     
  15. yZe

    yZe Senior Member

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    You are equating constructive criticism with bringing people down

    Big difference between the 2
     
  16. KCWM

    KCWM Member

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    +1

    I might not like a song, but I can at least comment on aspects of it that I think would make it better. I'm not going to listen to a country song that's posted and be like "damn, I like country now"...but if an intro doesn't work, or a transition bogs down...I can point that out. Or if the music is tightly knit or a solo really sticks out, even if I don't like the music, I can still comment.

    Me? I'd rather here something critical than nothing at all. It's how we, as musicians, grow. Sometimes our own ears deceive us and we need a new, fresh perspective to get us out of the rut we are in. For those of us not in a band, this is the closest thing we get.
     
  17. Texsunburst59

    Texsunburst59 Member

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    I personally don't think that most of the guys that hang here could handle a brutally honest assessment of their music. I think most here would retaliate on the person being critical. I really don't think it would work. I'm being honest when I say if a certain person picked my clip to death and I felt like they were WAY off, I might feel the need to attack their clip next time they posted. I think it's human nature to defend yourself. People don't want to be told that their baby is ugly. I feel that the guys that get the most praise here for their tone and playing truly deserve it. Most guys here know good playing and tone, and the guys that post the good stuff get the praise. That's the way it is around here. Brutal honesty about peoples clips will not work. This place would get ugly really fast. Just my .02
     
  18. KCWM

    KCWM Member

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    That's understandable. It's sad that a community like this has to walk around on eggshells for fear of trampling on someone's feelings. The one place where it's anonymous and people still back away. I think if someone was retaliatory to the point that you're saying it could get, the post could very well be reported and dealt with.

    I'd like to believe that we're all adults. At the same time, we are our own worst critics. Maybe we think a certain part really stinks, but can't come up with anything else. So, we go to the internet, post something for opinions, and get nothing. We are stuck in the same rut.

    If people get their panties in a bunch, so be it. What I think rattles someone is when they are sprayed with opinions that offer no explanation. For example, Joe Poster comes in and says "your tone blows, you wouldn't know melody/harmony if it punched you in the face, you have no sense of timing, the arrangement sucks, etc", it's going to leave someone a little lost for words. But, if the same poster comes in and says "I'm not a huge fan of the tone, it's a little on the muffled side and gets lost in the mix" or "the overdrive seems a bit boxy sounding," it makes a huge difference.

    I get the impression most people don't want to do that...they don't want to take the time to break down the songs of someone else...they just want theirs critiqued. That's why I posted my link but also started trying to critique some of the stuff here...at least there stuff I feel like I'm qualified to critique. Considering I hear a negligible difference between the expensive boutiques and the off the shelf amps, I'm not qualified to break down tone...and I'm not a lead guitarist, so I really can't discuss the finer aspects of lead play.
     
  19. yZe

    yZe Senior Member

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    Tex does have a point

    Did you see what the disgruntled Patriots fan posted in the PUB ?

    I mean if people get all bent out of shape on that, just think if you said that the bridge to the guy's tune needed work !
     
  20. journo

    journo Member

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    Hi,

    I think Tex and KCWM has some valid points but I would like to add my perspective as a person who posts a few clips now and then.

    About fear of trampling on someone's feelings and that being sad. From my point of view this shows the absolute best side of the people being at TGP. Music is about feelings and emotions. All creativity is about daring to show your emotions openly. That people, where it's anonymous, still respect the feelings and emotions of the poster is truly awsome in this day and age where anonymity usually brings disrespect and selfaggrandizement.

    I really and truly appreciate the pats on the back I have received here over the years for my tunes. I can without doubt state that if it hadn't been for that I would not be at all where I am musically today. Possibly not personally either.

    I know my tunes are not terrific most of the time if you compare them to a lot of the stuff commercially available through the times or compared to a lot of the stuff I hear regularly posted here. I still enjoy the communication I have with the people who do enjoy my music. I also know that, while I possibly would not feel the need to retaliate against people who critizize my work I know I would probably feel hurt if I felt the song in question was one I was proud of.

    Then another point I have noticed being from a country not having english as my native language is how we use language to convey our intentions. A person who means well and has the experience to properly comment a tune in a constructive way may not possess the language skills to say what needs to be said in a way that is received as being well meant and constructive towards the poster and not as a "tear down".

    My own way of handling this is that I actually ask for comments when I feel I can take it. And then I usually get it. Sometimes (like in the tune I posted yesterday) I particulary asked for opinions regarding the mix as I have just installed new studio monitors. I will probably get a few responses on that and I will look closely at those and see how I may improve my art further.

    I see the original point of yZe and if I was stronger as a musician/composer/guitarist and a stronger person I would probably agree totally and welcome a change. But being who I am with the limits to my personality and musicianship I struggle with every day and the role of humans in today's society I love TGP just the way it is.

    Cheers,

    Mats N
     

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