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Paul Simon

gibson3798

Member
Messages
1,349
Irrelevant and out of touch with where music was heading? He had his own ship to steer, why would he care where everyone else was heading? Which artist can you think of with a 50 year career who hasn't experienced ebb and flow? It happened to Dylan, it happened to Newman, and it may have happened to Lennon, too. McCartney? Has he always had his pulse on "where music was heading"?

The Los Lobos/Simon story is a painful one that affected my feelings toward Simon for a long time. In time, I've learned, especially since I don't know the whole truth, to forgive him, in spite of those unfortunate incidents, and enjoy his music for the brilliance that it is.


This much is certain, it wasn't trending African Tribal and if it did I guess I missed that tsunami. He had flow and he has had ebb ever since, that's my point, he's not on the radar musically. That won't keep him from being feted for his past accomplishments but Dylan, McCartney, Lennon he is not.
 

Endr_rpm

Member
Messages
3,324
Horses for courses

Lennon/McCartney for pop
Dylan for folk
Simon for life

Only living boy, America, The Boxer, Obvious Child, BOTW, I mean, come ON. And the Diamonds on the soles of her shoes. As a bass player, the Graceland album is like mothers milk. And all of them are still kicking it live. I agree that Simon is more a muso's artist, but he also isn't struggling to hit the high notes in "Hey Jude" for the millionth time, you know?
 

Flogger59

Member
Messages
11,881
I'd call that a pretty thin characterization of the actual claims made on behalf of the supposedly-ripped off Africans that loved working with him and continued to do so.



If you're curious enough, you can find it.
I am curious, but since you know where it is, how about doing us a solid?
 

dporto

Member
Messages
760
I loath the "comparison game"so I won't go there... I absolutely Love Paul Simon's music (I have no clue about his personality or politics - nor do I care to). He always writes thoughtful (and thought provoking) lyrics and the music as well as his voice/singing always seems to "fit" and enhance them. The stylistic breadth of his music is truly awesome and his bands are always amazing. Who'd think to put a band of African guys together to play a Song (not to mention a whole album of incredible tunes) about the American South - and pull it off ? What else can I say? Am I a fan? Oh yeah...
 
Messages
746
To his fans, Paul Simon is absolutely in the same camp as Beatles, Dylan, Stones, etc.

My church music director is a huge fan. I casually enjoy the greatest hits.
 
Messages
2,669
The interesting thing is that Paul Simon can piss 2 liters per minute, whereas Bob Dylan has a higher bladder volume, albeit at a slower flow rate.
 

tiktok

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
23,722
Yeah, that doesn't really address the issues brought up in the Los Lobos interview, which I guess for Paul is a "slanging match". I mean, if I went into a room with a bunch of musicians, an already existing band, and they started jamming on something and the I took that, put vocals over it and arranged it, I wouldn't consider that "Words And Music By Tiktok".

Paul Simon answered:

"I just said at this stage I don't care whether the album comes out without Los Lobos on it. I was getting really tired of it—I don't want to get into a public slanging match over this, but this thing keeps coming up. So we finished the recordings. And three months passed, and there was no mention of 'joint writing.' The album came out and we heard nothing. Then six months passed and Graceland had become a hit and the first thing I heard about the problem was when my manager got a lawyer's letter. I was shocked. They sent this thing to my manager, not me. If there was a problem, they could have contacted me direct. They've got my home number; we talked a lot. If you ask me, it was a lawyer's idea. You know, 'The record's a hit, and there's $100,000 in it.' They had nine months from the recordings to talk to me about all this, but I heard nothing. And it's still not sorted out, because they still keep bringing it up—I heard they'd done this interview for you. I don't want to get into a public slanging match with them, because I really like their music."
 

TNJ

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
28,862
He's an American icon.

And, no, he's not perfect.

Am I a major fan...no.

Am I a fan...yes.

Do I really care about the minutia of his personality and his business dealings...no.



S.
j
 

chrisr777

Member
Messages
25,009
Paul Simon is hugely talented but he's not even in the same league as Lennon/McCartney. He was tapped out when he reinvented himself with the African "period". People were very much over him at that point as his record sales would prove. And that's about where he stayed, irrelevant and out of touch with where music was heading.
Hmmmmmmmm

Graceland -
5x platinum
Number three on the Billboard charts
Record of the year
Album of the year

Rhythm of the Saints -
2x platinum
Number four on the Billboard charts
Nominated for Album of the year

So that world music period obviously missed the mark.

Then, of course, he tried Broadway which I admit was not his best work.

But he followed that up with an Academy Award nomination. Then Surprise with Brian Eno was a hit in 2006 reaching #14. And finally, his last album in 2011 debuted at #4.


So it kind of looks like you are the one who was out of touch.
 

Balance

Member
Messages
1,085
"Hearts and Bones," "Train in the Distance," "Hearts and Bones" are all incredible songs. The bridge on "Something So Right" is as good as it gets.

Some people never say the words "I love you"
It's not their style to be so bold
Some people never say the words "I love you"
But like a child they're longing to be told


Not a huge fan but recognize his genius. The Los Lobos thing does negatively influence my opinion of him, but his work can stand on its own merits.
 

PeaElAre

Member
Messages
484
Paul Simon may be my all time favorite and his last album is as good as anything he's ever done. Saw him live for the first time 2 years ago and stands as one of the best live music experiences I've ever had. I think I may trend slightly younger than his target demo in my mid 30's.
 
Messages
1,387
Yeah, that doesn't really address the issues brought up in the Los Lobos interview, which I guess for Paul is a "slanging match". I mean, if I went into a room with a bunch of musicians, an already existing band, and they started jamming on something and the I took that, put vocals over it and arranged it, I wouldn't consider that "Words And Music By Tiktok".

Paul Simon answered:

"I just said at this stage I don't care whether the album comes out without Los Lobos on it. I was getting really tired of it—I don't want to get into a public slanging match over this, but this thing keeps coming up. So we finished the recordings. And three months passed, and there was no mention of 'joint writing.' The album came out and we heard nothing. Then six months passed and Graceland had become a hit and the first thing I heard about the problem was when my manager got a lawyer's letter. I was shocked. They sent this thing to my manager, not me. If there was a problem, they could have contacted me direct. They've got my home number; we talked a lot. If you ask me, it was a lawyer's idea. You know, 'The record's a hit, and there's $100,000 in it.' They had nine months from the recordings to talk to me about all this, but I heard nothing. And it's still not sorted out, because they still keep bringing it up—I heard they'd done this interview for you. I don't want to get into a public slanging match with them, because I really like their music."
So Paul is basically saying "I stole it, but they didn't bother until it made money". I guess that still means he stole it, though.

The guy copyrighted Scarborough Fair for god's sake :)

But I feel that he wrote so many killer songs himself that it is really not important at this point. I would put him up with all the greats, and may even go see him with Sting next month :)
 

tiktok

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
23,722
So Paul is basically saying "I stole it, but they didn't bother until it made money". I guess that still means he stole it, though.

The guy copyrighted Scarborough Fair for god's sake :)

But I feel that he wrote so many killer songs himself that it is really not important at this point. I would put him up with all the greats, and may even go see him with Sting next month :)
Funny how that happened.

Seriously though, he has indisputably written a ton of amazing songs.
 

Flogger59

Member
Messages
11,881
:mob
So Paul is basically saying "I stole it, but they didn't bother until it made money". I guess that still means he stole it, though.

The guy copyrighted Scarborough Fair for god's sake :)

But I feel that he wrote so many killer songs himself that it is really not important at this point. I would put him up with all the greats, and may even go see him with Sting next month :)
I love the guy's work, but American Tune is right out of a hymn book, I remember singing it in the choir when I was a kid in the 60's.
 




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