Payment in Advance

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by mike6m, Dec 23, 2009.


  1. mike6m

    mike6m Supporting Member

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    It drives me nuts when pedal builders, or anyone really, charges 100% in advance for a product. Whatever happened to the "50% down and 50% at delivery" rule? I know builders don't want to spend the time and money on a custom build to have a buyer not show in the end, but maybe the rule could be 75% down payment for a custom build and 25% at delivery. I think this would cover most expenses and eliminate most no-show buyers.

    This applies to only a small handful of builders who do this. Most of my dealings with small builders of anything have been extremely reasonable (even with extra long wait times). I just think that if a company is going to take payment in full, the bar needs to be raised. A delivery date should be provided and adhered to (not just "it will be about 5 months"). If you ask the consumer to deliver up front, the same should be expected on the back end as well.

    I have encountered this policy more than once and I should add that I haven't been put in a situation where the builder hasn't delivered, but I think those lengthy wait times would be a little easier to deal with if I knew an exact date of delivery.

    I just think that the experience could be improved in some cases. What do you think?
     
  2. Stratman69

    Stratman69 Member

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    That's why builders should post an up-to-date wait time delivery on their pedals so you know when it's a good time to buy one, rather than having you buy it and you find yourself waiting for 3 weeks, 3 months or however long wondering "wtf is going on".

    I don't really understand why there's huge wait-lists on pedals anyways. There's no way there can be that huge of a demand for a pedal and make it so that there's a 6 month wait-list.

    Unless the builder is having a hard time locating certain NOS parts like NKT 275 Transistors or something, there's no reason it should take forever to get everything located and put together. Especially if you know exactly what you're doing.

    It's basically like putting together a BYOC Kit. The builder should have everything sitting right in front of him unless they are building PCB's or locating rare parts. All they gotta do is throw it all together, test it, and it should be out the door. 4-6 weeks for one? PALEASE! If I was a builder that had huge wait lists, I would be knocking this stuff out left and right. They are just pedals for gods sake. Not a guitar.

    I think it's just a load of bull myself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2009
  3. jonny toetags

    jonny toetags Member

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    I can agree with a down payment of some sort, but not the full amount.

    Personally, I would never put any money down on any pedal.
    I like Paul C's way of doing it.
     
  4. jazzandmetal?

    jazzandmetal? Supporting Member

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    If a builder tells me 3 weeks or 3 months I don't really get bent out of shape until it gets past that time. A delivery before that time is a pleasant surprise.

    I don't particularly like paying ahead of time, but I will do it as long as the builder has a good reputation. Plus, I don't know the circumstance of their business. Maybe this is just a side gig to them and they need to collect money up front to buy parts or whatever.

    I should add that the Klon is the only pedal I have bought that had a pay up front policy that didn't involve custom options. I can more understand a builder who does lots of custom stuff wanting payment in full. A back out on that kind of pedal could be a loss of money for a builder.
     
  5. 908SSP

    908SSP Member

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    I have never seen anybody charge 50% on delivery. Or do you mean the 50% when ready for delivery? I see no reason for anybody to charge 50% up front money. If the seller doesn't have the capitol to have a few pieces ready to go he shouldn't be in business. Keeping a minimum inventory and only charging when ready to ship seems like basic business. No corporate manufacturer would expect you to pay to put their product into production. Anyway the subject touches a nerve with me.
     
  6. Hangfire

    Hangfire Member

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    Paul C is awesome, I'm on the list but Paul would not take any money until my pedal is ready! :dude
     
  7. jonny toetags

    jonny toetags Member

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    Exactly.
    He told me 4 months, it took 6, but I never worried because I never had any money tied into it.

    On the negative side, I know there are many pedals I will never get to try or buy because of the fact i don't believe in 'money down' :(
     
  8. guitarpkr67

    guitarpkr67 Member

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    This is the funniest post in a while. You really don't know what you are talking about.

    Regarding paying in advance. If I want the pedal and the builder wants payment in advance, I don't mind. I have to really want the pedal though. I've only done it a couple times.
     
  9. Stratman69

    Stratman69 Member

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    Oooh WoW

    I could build my own effect in a single weekend, etching my own pcb and all. AS LONG AS I HAVE ALL THE PARTS READY TO GO. Which most builders should have already done.

    What's takes so flippin' long to paint a box and etc, solder lets say a total of 15 parts, test and ship??

    I've built my own clones from scratch using various online schematics/tutorials. OVER THE WEEKEND.
     
  10. jazzandmetal?

    jazzandmetal? Supporting Member

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    But...

    Did you have to answer a billion emails from folks asking any kind of question you can think of from the transistor types, differences, what size, is there an led, is there this or that, can you do this or that.....etc while building your pedals?

    That can make a difference in the time it takes. I would imagine building a few clones for yourself over the weekend is a little different than making pedals for the public.
     
  11. Stratman69

    Stratman69 Member

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    If they don't like what i'm building then they can go screw themselves. :bitch

    It's called an order form btw. If they want special specs then OBVIOUSLY they will have to wait. I've said that a few times already in my posts for this thread....

    It doesn't 6-8 weeks though to find a larger hammond box or add an LED.
     
  12. jetofuj

    jetofuj Member

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    Ha, ha...

    Imagine you're one man company and you have 300 people waiting for a pedal from you. Of course you have a family and other responsibilities. You have to buy parts, ship pedals, write emails, check forums...
     
  13. jazzandmetal?

    jazzandmetal? Supporting Member

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    :rotflmao:rotflmao

    I get what you are saying. I do. I am just saying that maybe there is other stuff going on that you or I may not know about which requires them to do business the way they do. Not everyone does, but some do.
     
  14. The Kid

    The Kid Member

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    Right on Doc. You've obviously found the recipe for success. :aok
     
  15. Stratman69

    Stratman69 Member

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    That's why i'm not in the pedal business. You guys make me want to kill myself sometimes....
     
  16. dsmc80

    dsmc80 Supporting Member

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    A lot of these people are also small operations with other jobs on the side. So what happens if the builders don't return emails, post on forums, take care of necessary paperwork, etc.? You have a bunch of pissy people all over the boards screaming at you. You really seem to be oversimplifying things.

    Also, I'm not a huge fan of the 100% payment for a pedal you won't get for 3 months....but if you don't like their rules, than don't buy the pedal.
     
  17. charmboy

    charmboy Member

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    This thread can be summed up and ended with this statement!
     
  18. mike6m

    mike6m Supporting Member

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    I have definitely seen some people post complaints on thegearpage without reaching out to the builder first, and that would be really annoying as a builder to not have a chance to settle things privately and then someone goes complaining about your product on a public forum.

    As for 'don't like the rules, don't buy the pedal,' this is where I feel that it's not so black and white. Maybe I want the product and can't find a used one, or can't find one that is not being sold at a premium. You certainly don't have to purchase the pedal, but when someone pays in full, aside from keeping a reputation, what is the incentive for the seller to deliver?

    I am only suggesting that it would be a great service for a builder that charges in full to quote a delivery date. Maybe they would promise a 5 month build time, with actual times being closer to 3-4 months. I have never seen a customer complain about someone overdelivering. If they are unable to meet production goals, it would make sense that they reach out to their customers and let them know what's going on. I think most builders on this site would do that anyway.
     
  19. fuzzfoot

    fuzzfoot Member

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    This topic strikes home for me. Big time. I have had three builders require 100% down and out of the three, all of them disappointed to the point of me demanding refunds. You'd think I would have learned from the first, but I didn't. The first builder simply didn't reply to my emails and after seeing dozens of other complaints I eventually had to file a dispute with the credit card to get my money back. This dealer is now black-listed by most. The other two were extremely 'credible' builders and the issue came down to broken promises and build times that were so far off (quoted 4 weeks, took 9 months). Only at the point of demanding a refund did anything happen. I received what I thought was a hurried and sloppy project. Done quickly to shut me up.

    I will never pay 100% down to be put on a multi-month wait list again. No way.

    There needs to be an incentive for the builder to finish your project in a timely manner. The incentive = your money.


    I CAN understand 50% down on custom projects, where if the buyer bailed out and couldn't complete the transaction, the builder would be protected. But make sure you put it on a credit card.

    EDIT: There are some builders who are golden and I wouldn't bat an eye at paying down. Do your homework and know your builder and you'll be fine.
     
  20. jmaster67

    jmaster67 Member

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    How badly do you want the pedal? If you don't want it enough to put money down, you aren't going to miss it not being on your board.
    As far as the incentive for the seller to deliver, acceptance of payment constitutes a binding contract. You actually would have more legal leverage for holding a builder to a delivery date if they gave you one.
     

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