PayPal has crossed the last line!

musekatcher

Member
Messages
2,271
PS - assuming .5% [1 of 200] of Paypals customers let a $4.80 charge go to avoid having to call, don't catch it, or don't realize its an error, and assuming this happens to that .5% once a year, we are talking $5.7M of additional revenue every year. Yes, they intentionally plan for your ignorance, negligence, and convenience in their favor.

PPS - bankers are really OCD about numbers and accounts, often fretting over pennies. However, some banks will "not notice" extra payments. My wife and I routinely made duplicate payments when we were first starting the household, and the honest banks and businesses notified us, or at least applied it to a balance - but not all. Corruption and cheating knows no bounds.
 
Messages
1,709
I stopped selling gear a while back. I'll just give it away to avoid the hassle of fees, shipping and unappreciative buyers (who sometimes demand refunds for no reason).

I have too many stories of me getting screwed.

Avoid the headache, find someone who wants it and just send it to them. I get to see my Telecaster on stage every Sunday at Church and the dude is so happy to have it. Makes me happy. I'm not rich either, it's my way of giving back.
 

jwguitar

Member
Messages
5,836
Imagine now you sell a $500 guitar on ebay-

and it turns out to be one of those sales where the buyer puts in a request
for a bogus return.

You have no choice but to accept it, so here is a hypothetical (but fairly accurate)
breakdown of the ways the costs could go down-

$500 sale=

ebay fees of $17.50
paypal fees of approx 20.00
shipping to the buyer- approx $50

Then the buyer returns it, which you have to bear the brunt of-

return shipping $50

Ebays says they do refund your fees, but you would be out approx.
$120 total- 50 shipping x 2 and the roughly $20 in paypal fees.

That is just crazy.
It’s things like this that make doing business with EBay very difficult. I used EBay many years ago and it was much more customer friendly. From everything I have heard it is not so much anymore.
 

skydog

Member
Messages
12,108
Was it a “paypal verified address”? I would have requested add'l shipping fees from the buyer to forward it to his new address. This was all on him. Not you, not paypal. What kind of an idiot doesn't provide the correct address? If it was an “honest mistake” as you called it, well mistakes usually cost you money. Look at it this way: what if the person at the initial destination kept it, but denied knowing anything? You might have been out the bridge and your money.
 

RGB

Member
Messages
6,085
I stopped selling gear a while back. I'll just give it away to avoid the hassle of fees, shipping and unappreciative buyers (who sometimes demand refunds for no reason).

I have too many stories of me getting screwed.

Avoid the headache, find someone who wants it and just send it to them. I get to see my Telecaster on stage every Sunday at Church and the dude is so happy to have it. Makes me happy. I'm not rich either, it's my way of giving back.
Exactly what I'm thinking of doing with a bunch of my old analog gear...wish I could find a non-profit to donate the stuff to. Have to look a little harder around the Phoenix area I guess. :)
 

Jon Silberman

10Q Jerry & Dickey
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
40,793
PayPal recently screwed me, too. I don't have the strength to describe how again (I did in a previous, similar thread). This being said, I'll use it when I have no choice whether to but still want to do the transaction, taking PayPal's involvement into account in deciding whether I still want to do it.
 

hunter

Supporting Member
Messages
6,401
I don't think Paypal cost you your money. I think your buyer cost you your money. If you are Paypal, a transaction is a transaction. Coming or going.

hunter
 

Guitarworks

Member
Messages
10,068
Op, pad your posted price with a additional percentage to cover the potential back end paypal fee should the buyer decide to want a refund.
As for telling paypal to cram it with walnuts, well, that's difficult if you take in a great deal of your business through them, which I do. So I have to factor in extra funds into pricing to compensate me for additional fees that must he passed on to the end user.
 

Yamaha 1421

Member
Messages
1,077
I still use PayPal for buying items online/offline but I have not used them for selling anything for years. As far as selling any gear which for me has been mostly guitars I just use my local Craigslist screen the buyer and we meet in a mall for a cash sale. Ebay and PayPal for selling have all walked off the map with their polices a long time ago for me.
 

musekatcher

Member
Messages
2,271
I stopped selling gear a while back. I'll just give it away to avoid the hassle of fees, shipping and unappreciative buyers (who sometimes demand refunds for no reason).
I'm tempted similarly. Finding worthy apprecianados is a problem however. I used to give stuff to family members to help out, only to find out they were selling it. Uncool.
 

ToneDeVille

Supporting Member
Messages
4,665
IMHO there's really no need to get bent over $10. That's a small issue in the context of the big picture.
And if PP's policies don't suit one's expectations there are other ways to get paid for a sale. PP charges a reasonable fee for the convenience of a simple mouse click transaction.
Sometimes you end up with a buyer that turns out to be a pita...it just comes with the process. To avoid this type of calamity maybe include some decisive disclaimers in your listing and stick to them, and weed out the low volume transaction buyers by refusing business with anyone with less than X # of purchases or anyone with a negative feedback of any kind.
Personally, I draw a line at what value I deem qualifies as a give away versus sale and don't mind giving gear to my kids or someone who needs it if it's something I don't want to mess with shipping or know isn't worth the expense and process of trying to sell. Or I put up for sale for local pickup only.
 

tjontheroad

Just Wanna Be Misunderstood
Vendor
Messages
8,284
I had the same issue with a buyer who forgot to change an old address when making payment. I had a heated discussion with a Paypal supervisor about their new policy. I was told they are “aligning themselves with the industry”. I said that translates to “someone in else is screwing their customers so we can too” right? He couldn’t answer that assessment.

The buyer was able to redirect the shipment while in transit. So no refund was needed.
 

mattcran

Supporting Member
Messages
29
So if I sell a 2k guitar on ebay, ship it, and the buyer decides for whatever reason they don't like it, I'm hosed out of around $200 once the smoke clears? This is going to make people stop using Ebay/Reverb. Something will come along to replace this sooner than later.
YES!!! I just dodged a bullet recently. They actually tried to implement this policy earlier in the year, but rolled it back due to public uproar. I have not been victim of it personally, but barely missed the most recent reinstatement of it. I sold a Les Paul a few weeks ago for $3600 and within hours of receiving it the buyer said... looks immaculate, but the neck doesn't work for me... where do I send it back to? I would have been out hundreds!! As someone else has stated, I think we'll start seeing more "10% return fees" in for sale listings. However, PayPal will probably not honor that and side with the buyer. Between this and the sales tax policies on Reverb and eBay, this hobby (at least the buy-sell part) has gotten much less fun and more stressful! I'm always sweating it between the time I see the package is delivered and the seller emails me to say all is well!!
 

GreenKnight18

Member
Messages
2,173
I get that the PayPal 'double charge' thing is an issue, but for me the far bigger and more annoying problem are all the fickle tool-bags returning stuff they don't like and sellers that sell questionable gear. If the two parties involved are honest decent humans most of this 'hypothetical scenario' stuff won't happen. Seller sells, buyer buys and we thank Paypal for the ability to easily send money all over the place.

The bigger issue (for me) is people returning stuff just because they don't like it. That's fine for retailers-- but even then it's an issue.

TGP is so weird about this stuff. Tire kickers are the worst.
 

nbessie1

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
454
PayPal recently screwed me, too. I don't have the strength to describe how again (I did in a previous, similar thread). This being said, I'll use it when I have no choice whether to but still want to do the transaction, taking PayPal's involvement into account in deciding whether I still want to do it.
Agreed!
 

Otter351

Member
Messages
494
Huh, guess I should actually read those TOS change emails instead of just immediately deleting them.
 




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