PayPal has crossed the last line!


Supporting Member
I'm only a purchaser when it comes to Ebay, Reverb and PayPal. If I want to sell some gear, I have good relationship with GC and will get roughly CL prices without any of the CL delay, hastle or risk.


Supporting Member
I recently sold a guitar on Reverb and the buyer requested a refund because he did not realize that strings can "slip" in the saddle on Jazzmaster type guitars. I authorized a full refund through Reverb/PayPal and I assumed that I would receive the seller fees and tax that Reverb held but they told me that they would not return to my card but instead would hold it on my monthly statement for use against future selling fees. These fees along with shipping cost me $200. I think this is a new policy since the Etsy acquisition and is pretty shady IMO.


Supporting Member
The only way this will work is for them to allow sellers to post a return alert on their page. Meaning that they have returned something and for it to list the official reason they returned it--to allow us to decide whether or not we want to do business with them.

There could be a drop down menu for them to initiate a return and they could select from a number of boilerplate reasons and if they don't see their reason they could go with an "other" option where they could explain it was greener than they thought or single coils just aren't their thing. Then, we as sellers, could read that page and decline all offers from folks with "it sounded weird through my computer speakers."


I’m going to be the only fly in your ointment I’m afraid. I don’t like paying fees any more than the next person. But I see the fee as a transaction administration fee. So when you look at it as a transaction admin fee, it is understandable that you should also pay to have the payment refunded - since that is an additional transaction, requiring additional admin.

Sorry. I still don’t like paying, but I think that charge is understandable.
Agreed, two transactions = two charges.
What’s the issue?


A few years ago I sold an item to a guy in France for around $140. I shipped it via USPS First Class International which has very limited tracking info once the package leaves the US. About three weeks later the buyer email me to say that he hadn't received the item yet. As expected, tracking didn't show any useful information, so I asked him to give it a couple more weeks.

After another week or two the customer wrote back to say that it still hadn't arrived. I wrote him back to apologize for the slow delivery and I also noted the ship-to address in my correspondence to make sure that there wasn't a typo error. He wrote back to say, "I haven't lived at that address in over three years. I forgot to update the address in my PayPal account". He then proceeded to file a dispute with PayPal saying that he never received the item he paid for. PayPal ruled in his favor and pulled the funds from my account to reimburse him.

I appealed the refund and sent PayPal a copy of all of our email correspondence highlighting where he admitted that he gave me the incorrect address, however they denied my appeal because I could not prove the the package was delivered as it addressed (because USPS First Class shipping does not show a confirmation of delivery for international packages).

I would love to say "Screw you PayPal", however I take in about $100K/yr through them, so its not an option. Sometimes you're just screwed.
That would be you, and your money.


Supporting Member
Yep PayPal sucks when something goes wrong. They screwed my wife over a year or so ago when she somehow received a payment for something she wasn’t selling. She got stuck with the fees. At that point we both quit using the service, but I found it difficult to sell stuff without accepting it as a payment option so I recently signed back Up. They still suck balls, but I guess we just have to deal with their terms or do things the old way with money orders...


Supporting Member
The buyer sold the guitar within 2-3 weeks of ordering the part? Sounds odd...


It is unfair to the seller when a buyer changes his/her mind and the seller takes the hit on fees. Sometime in 2008, both ebay and Paypal realised that buyers make their market; when buyers stay away, ebay and Paypal suffer. So, the pendulum swang the other way; the buyer gets almost all the benefit of the doubt and suffers no penalties. Impose a fee penalty on flippant buyers and we will see this kind of flippant buying behaviour drop. ebay and Paypal are ballsless though.

Me? Wire or bust. Someone said that I would be severely limiting the size of my market. That's the entire point: it rids me of the wafflers, the abusers, the neophytes who don't know what they are looking at but feel like taking a poke and a squeeze, suspicious minds and the plain old tyrekickers.

Restocking fees ought to be a thing. Sellers too had better up their game with exhaustive photos and unerring descriptions. No language of the carny barker. (No equipment should ever carry the description "Mint". It is a USED guitar; expect some signs of use. You demand Mint? Buy NEW. Describing anything as Mint is setting yourself up for abuse. There is nary any difference in selling price between "Mint" and "Used with Signs of Use". Folk looking for Mint Used are people you want to avoid selling to. People who buy to play don't mind a few used marks as long as it shows that it has not been abused. People who want Mint Used are not players but noodlers.)

3.5% here and 3.5% there and soon we are looking at the entire cost of the guitar. The shipping companies must be smiling like crazy, shipping boxes back and forth.
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I wish Paypal would just delete my account for non-use, the same same way eBay did a few years ago.
Eventually I'll get around to deleting it myself...

gillman royce

Supporting Member
I'll keep my PP account for the convenience of certain retail purchases, but I'm done using it as a seller of used gear. The returns after 6 months thing was enough to discourage me from using it anymore than necessary anyway.
Yeah , unbelievable they can get away with refunding after 6 months - you're not Costco.
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I’ve gotten flak here for having an issue with the name PayPal.
I said they’re not your pal.

Told ya

Mr Fingers

As for the OP, the repeated transactions were caused by the buyer, and the problem lies with him. Wrong address? Sold the guitar? That stuff is idiotic and of course increases transaction costs. I have no love for Pay Pal, but it's just a transaction service. Of course they charge per transaction. The reasons for the repeated transactions have nothing to do with them. They just move money securely. I think your resentment is entirely misplaced. It's the buyer who caused the problem. Why would PayPal give free service to a screwup? They had to do the transaction.


Gold Supporting Member
The only thing I can think of is that people respond to my posts without actually reading them...

...nothing else explains some of these responses.

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