Pearl Harbor

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by jazzman1021, Dec 7, 2017.


  1. Brutus

    Brutus Member

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    I spent a multitude of hours playing with that and more. Led to many years of reading military history and ten years in the Air Force. Fortunately it was a relatively peaceful ten years.
     
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  2. RevWillie

    RevWillie Gold Supporting Member

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    People tend to echo what they've been taught and IIRC Japan was in denial for several/many decades after the war. Schools never taught the 1880-1941 history of Japan that the rest of the world learned about (or at least was available to learn).
     
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  3. daacrusher2001

    daacrusher2001 Silver Supporting Member

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    OMG...the same thing happened here (close enough, anyway). Someone I work with said...isn't today D-Day or something? I replied - it's Pearl Harbor Day. She said, oh yeah, not sure why I remember these things...I told her everyone should remember - geez!!!!

    [Edit] My father was a WWII Marine, he spent 18 months on Midway...look at this place - can you imagine!
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  4. Penguinchit

    Penguinchit Member

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    I think we would have eventually been drawn into the war.

    My dad tells a story about my grandpa's service. He was infantry in the Pacific somewhere. His squad was separated from the rest of their guys for a while and had to constantly be on guard and hide. They ran out of food and would shoot monkeys to eat. Take a shot, go grab the monkey and dash away to hide because the shot gave away their position. Couldn't cook it because the fire would give away their position. They ate raw monkey. He told that story to my dad, uncles and aunts when they didn't want to eat their dinner to show them they need to be grateful for what they had...After he'd taken their food.
     
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  5. MrAstro

    MrAstro Member

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    A day of infamy. Yep they've got it in-for-me.
     
  6. Phila67

    Phila67 Member

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    Interesting questions. War was coming, there was no doubt about that. We really did push Japan to attack; with the embargos tightened, they had two choices: attack and hope for a negotiated peace that would allow them to stay in china, or 2, concede to US demands and withdraw from China. 2 was not going to happen. Where we dithered was in not being adequately ready for their attack. We knew it was coming, but dropped the ball. Arguments can be made that Japan's successes early on were due just as much to luck and allied negligence. But like Dunkirk, we turned a disaster into a rallying point.

    If the attack on Pearl were somehow averted or abated, it's possible Japan could have won the war in the Pacific by winning the hoped for "Decisive Naval Battle" which the US Navy's War Plan Orange would have played into--everything sails west to relieve Manila. We may have put too much reliance on battleships, whereas the Japanese may have relied more on carrier power since their battleships for most part were as obsolete as those at Pearl if not more so. If Japan wins, they stay in China and who knows what the Far East looks like today? Pearl Harbor scraped War Plan Orange forcing the US Navy to hone the art of carrier warfare and ironically Midway becomes the decisive battle in favor of the USN.

    Japan only 6 had months of fuel to wage a naval oriented war. And contrary to popular belief, they were not quite the invincible military machine often described in books. If they were checked in the Phillipines/Malaysia/Singapore, might the war have ended sooner? And if so how? Would a negotiated peace mean other wars in the pacific in the 50s and 60s?
     
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  7. semore butts

    semore butts Member

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    I did! I surely did!
    Nothing but respect. What a tough time in our nation!
    And kudos to the servicemen and woman that still join after 15 years of wars.
     
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  8. sharpshooter

    sharpshooter Member

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    Had Japans intelligence reports been up-to-par, they would have known that the US carriers were not in port, and might have re-scheduled the attack for a later date.
    Had we lost our carriers at Pearl, we would have been in no position to win at Midway,, even though we had broken some of their codes.
    Yes, Japan had limited fuel reserves, and also needed huge quanities of rice and rubber to keep the war effort going.
    That is why they were so concerted in their push thru South East Asia. Singapore, to knock-out the British from the area, the rubber from French Indo-China, the oil from the Dutch East Indies, and the rice from the whole area.
    The Empire, (like Rome,) ended-up expanding to the point where they could not keep, or re-supply
    the troops necessary to hold the ground,, and our submarines were the main reason for that.
    Intrestingly, all but two of the BBs sank at Pearl were repaired/refitted, and went on to serve very well,, and after Pearl, Battleship duty was pretty safe, no more of them were lost in the entire war.
     
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  9. slipbeer

    slipbeer Supporting Member

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    I did stop for a moment today and did remember.

    3 years ago I flew out to Pearl Harbor to attend the remembrance and the parade on December 7th. I had never been and felt the need to go. It was a good experience.

    My Dad served in Europe in WWII and was in the Battle of the Bulge, holed up on a farm in the wine cellar outside of Bastogne and I've made a point of visiting there which was also a good experience.

    I still would like to get to Normandy but I made one failed attempt a few years back on the last weekend in July, which no one in my office mentioned was when everybody in the UK who owns a camper comes over and goes on vacation, meaning the road from Calais to Normandy is totally packed and going about 1 km per hour. Next time I'm going during the week.
     
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  10. jim lavender

    jim lavender Member

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    Visited last year. Quite a moving experience.
     
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  11. Jp2558

    Jp2558 Member

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    For the first time in my life, today, December 7th, I saw no mention of this being Pearl Harbor Day on the nightly news. Granted I only saw the 6:30 news on one network, but there was always a piece about Pearl Harbor, but today there was not. I guess there are too many other distractions now and for half of our population PH might as well have been the Civil War.

    As for me, I'll never forget.
     
  12. rumbletone

    rumbletone Silver Supporting Member

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    Certainly many countries present a version of history that paints them in an unjustly positive light - and as was pointed out in the thread last year, the US also denied much about the history of Hawaii until issuing the Apology Resolution in 1993, though I’d be very interested to know what is taught about the history of Hawaii (or the USA’s historical treatment of other indigenous populations) in US schools today.

     
  13. iamdavea

    iamdavea Silver Supporting Member

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    I was at a funeral about 10 years ago. I started talking to an older gentleman that I overheard talking about a small town in CA., where--coincidentally--I was conceived. He was a WWII veteran, Pacific theater. He told me, "I participated in 5 amphibious landings. By all rights, I shouldn't be here today." It was my privilege to thank him, shake his hand, and, as I left, give him a hug. Lovely guy. To quote from Lawrence of Arabia: "What I owe you is beyond evaluation."
     
  14. don carney

    don carney Silver Supporting Member

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    Yesterday in one of the papers, there were many pictures of the ships in the harbor being bombed and immediately thereafter. One cannot help but think about what a mess we as a country were in then. It took great courage with the entire country united to pull us out of it. One longs for certain things in today's world.
     
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  15. A-Bone

    A-Bone Montonero, MOY, Multitudes Gold Supporting Member

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    As the event slips from living memory, I expect it will be consigned to history books much like Gettysburg, or Lexington and Concord, or the Battle of New Orleans. That's just the way it goes.
     
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  16. StevenA

    StevenA Member

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    Try asking anyone, anything about WWI
     
  17. A-Bone

    A-Bone Montonero, MOY, Multitudes Gold Supporting Member

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    Exactly. It's kind of exciting if they can get the years right, or the cascade of alliances that kicked off the whole mess.
     
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  18. BADHAK

    BADHAK Member

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    I don't think Japan had a hope of winning. Regardless of if they got the carriers at Pearl Harbour. Once the US was in and was resolved to win, it was over for Japan (and Germany )
     
  19. A-Bone

    A-Bone Montonero, MOY, Multitudes Gold Supporting Member

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    I've read some things over the years that suggest that Japan was hoping to drive the US and European colonizers out of their "Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere," and thought that quick and decisive victories would convince the US in particular to leave the Japanese colonial expansion alone. They hoped to not have to fight a prolonged war with the US.
     

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