Pedal buffer advice

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by JonSick, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. JonSick

    JonSick Member

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    So this is my rig and set up:
    Guitar
    Wireless
    Pedalboard In
    Boss TU3
    MXR Slash Wah
    MXR Phase90
    Boss CE2w
    EVH Flanger
    ISP Decimator
    Pedalboard out
    7m long cable to amp input
    Amp Send to 7m long cable to pedal board
    Boss DD7
    Boss RV7
    pedalboard to Amp return via another 7m long cable

    So obviously I'm getting a fair bit of tone-suck. Very long cables, a bunch of effects in the chain. Hence, I'm wondering if a buffer pedal (JHS Little Black or the TC BonaFide) will help? If so, where would I put it in the chain? The cables are all Planet Waves and sadly in the UK, there's not really a better option without spending a tonne on customs import duty, etc.
     
  2. Chandyland

    Chandyland Member

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    Your wireless is already doing the main job of a buffer. Not to mention your tuner is buffered, as well.

    I think any difference you would see would be negligible at best.
     
  3. Hawkmoon269

    Hawkmoon269 Member

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    You already have tons of buffers in that chain. Plenty of buffering is happening. You might want to consider using loopers to take some pedals out of the chain when not in use. That might help your tone.
     
    FokenBusker and MoonshineMan like this.
  4. tobereleased

    tobereleased Member

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    Is it actually obvious? Can you clearly hear a difference between through your pedalboard and straight into the amp? Or are you just assuming you have tone suck because you have a fair few pedals?
     
    moore_for_less likes this.
  5. RACKDOCTOR

    RACKDOCTOR Member

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    Your Wireless, TU3, DD7 and RV7 are all buffering.
     
    Ezzy911 likes this.
  6. JonSick

    JonSick Member

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    I can definitely hear the difference. I think my long cable runs may be part of the cause and may have to take the plunge into getting shorter or better quality cable. I haven't fully tested that hypothesis though, simply compared straight into amp cross with amp via Pedalboard.
     
  7. captaincoconut

    captaincoconut Member

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    Well, there's no way around it. With this kind of setup there will always be some change in tone compared to straight-into-the-amp tone. Another buffer won't help you at all in this case as you already have a number of buffers in your signal chain.

    The smartest albeit most expensive solution would be a true bypass looper like the GigRig G2, Boss or anything comparable. It would allow you to run the shortest signal path possible without any compromise on tone.
     
  8. Carlos Angulo

    Carlos Angulo Member

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    Put an EQ before the amp front end. Maybe you can boost the signal and making small tweeks to the frecuencies can get you closer to the original signal.
     
  9. philamag87

    philamag87 Silver Supporting Member

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    Get the lowest capacitance cables you can afford.
     
  10. Chandyland

    Chandyland Member

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    Won't matter with a wireless, but decent general advice.

    Too low will make the sound too tinny anyway.
     
  11. CarlGuitarist

    CarlGuitarist Member

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    I dare say that neither extra buffers or expensive new cables will make much difference. This is a matter of checking each pedal and cable individually to see if any particular item is causing issues, and then adding them one at a time to see when things are starting to degrade. A loop switcher could certainly help clean things up.
     
  12. JonSick

    JonSick Member

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    Might I be better off putting an effects rack together, either using something like the Rocktron Patchmate and some kinda breakout for the Wah, or picking up a G Major or something like that to keep the cable runs as small as possible?
     
  13. JagFan

    JagFan Member

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    As others have said. Lack of buffers isn't the issue here. A TB looper would be the way to go, you can get/ make pretty simple ones for not that much in the grand scheme of things.

    Something else to investigate though. I previously had a Boss GE7 and an Ibanez TS9 next to each other and found that my tone was changed when both were bypassed. I took them out of the path individually and the tone was back even if I had one of them in the path (but not the other). Something about the two buffers together made a big difference. Might be worth taking the buffered pedals out of the signal path one by one and seeing if something like that is going on here too.
     
  14. josiahmac

    josiahmac Member

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    Lots of good info here, especially buffers affecting other buffers.

    I went down this path not too long ago. I tried quite a few buffered pedals, as well as, stand alone buffers. I found that the best tone I could possibly get was a 10’ lead cable from guitar straight into TU3 tuner and then no buffers from there on.

    I put the TU3 up against quite a few buffers including, TC Bonafide, various Klones, JHS little black buffer, and others.

    Start with a shorter 10’ or less lead cable into the tuner, then run a 20’ cable to your amp. See if that does anything for you?

    Once I heard it, I couldn’t go back. I got rid of every pedal or cable that colored my tone(and there were a lot).
     
  15. FokenBusker

    FokenBusker Member

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    Do you know where in the signal chain the tone suck is occurring? I find the ultimate culprit when long cables are concerned is that point between the preamp out and the fx loop's return. I've had success with dialing it out from the amp head's side, aka turn up the head's volume (preamp, not master) and, if available, adjusting the signal balance between the dry signal and the FX loop. That latter feature is a fantastic option if your amp head has it.
     
  16. TYR

    TYR Member

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    All Boss pedals are buffered. You've got 2 going into the amp input and 2 going into the effects loop. Plenty.
     
  17. JonSick

    JonSick Member

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    I'm not sure where the suck is happening. The chain in the effects loop is only the Boss DD7 and Boss RV7. I think I may need to do some experimentation at volume. I have gigs the next week so I'll have to live with it for the immediate future for now. I had no clue that one buffer would affect another though. I thought once it was buffered, then the next in the chain would be doing not very much.

    I think I mainly suspect the cable lengths, I have noticed the most difference between planet waves and the old ernie ball cables I had just going straight to amp; the PW do seem to darken the tone somewhat.

    I do have a MXR KKV EQ that I'm not using, so I can always add that somewhere if it turns out it needs it.
     
  18. Danny D

    Danny D Member

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    I need a buffered aspirin.
     

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