Peer-to-Peer Pedal/Device Rental Service.

Would you use this if it was available?


  • Total voters
    34
  • Poll closed .

Zaid Crowe

Member
Messages
45
Dudes and Dudettes,

Firstly - I hope this is an ok place to post/discuss this. It's an idea that's very focussed on devices small enough to easily ship around at low cost, is currently a twinkle in my eye, and I'm interested in peoples thoughts.

The idea
The above are just a couple of examples of the issues around pedal ownership. My idea to help address some of these issues, on paper, is pretty simple:

I want to build an application that would allow people to rent out their own equipment, so that:
  • People get to try stuff out the way they want to, with there own rigs in real life situations
  • People could make some cash from 'idle stock' or devices they want around, but don't use day to day
  • Touring musicians can get their hands on exactly the equipment they want, affordably and with no compromise
  • Musicians can get creative using equipment they don't feel they have to make a longer term investment in
  • Access to (potentially) an inventory of devices well beyond anything stoked by retailers
Right now this would be a UK only service - but I'd welcome thoughts from anyone/everywhere!

My questions are:
  • Would you use this to rent out your gear?
  • If you wouldn't rent out your gear - why not? I ask this outside of the obvious reasons, like you are permanently using it for example
  • Would you use this to rent gear? If so why?
  • Has any one seen this done? There are plenty of places you can rent gear, but the pedal selection is limited, and I've seen no way for owners to rent out their own kit - have I missed something?
I've given this alot of thought - so please come at me with question if you are interested, I didn't want to write a novel for an initial post.

If any one is interest in trying this out, for fun as part of a manual dry run, please PM me :)
 

squarefrog

Member
Messages
2
This looks like an interesting idea.

So if I wanted to experiment with some new sounds in the studio, could I rent a bunch of different pedals out for a couple of weeks?

Say if I rent out a pedal and it gets damaged, what would happen?
 

Zaid Crowe

Member
Messages
45
Awesome questions :)

So if I wanted to experiment with some new sounds in the studio, could I rent a bunch of different pedals out for a couple of weeks?

Yes! As long as owners have devices they where happy to rent out in that context ...absolutely!

Say if I rent out a pedal and it gets damaged, what would happen?

As I said, the idea is in principle, simple. In the real world, we would have to guard against theft, fraud, and damage. Here's some of my thinking around that:
  • The rental fees would be held by the business that owns the app until the rental terms have been met
  • When a device is sent out for rental, it's sent to 'us' for vetting rather than directly to the renter. We ensure that it works as described, and document everything regarding its condition. Assuming it passes the test, we send this to the renter. If it fails, it goes back to the owner, and the renter is refunded in full.
  • When the renter is done, they send the pedal back to us, where we ensure it's going back as it was sent out. If it's ok, they are refunded the appropriate amount (minus rental fee). If it's damaged, we notify the owner who can decide if they simply want it replaced, or maybe aren't bothered if it's superficial wear/tear. The held deposit funds in the result of damages/theft/loss would then be passed on to the owner as compensation.
All of the above would all require a trust system, e.g. ratings of owners/renters to help build trust.

I've already looked into courier costs, and next day delivery with up to £500 worth of insurance is actually extremely affordable. Long terms, once a let has been agreed I'd love to be able to send the renter an addressed box, with packaging, so you have to do nothing but drop it off at a post office, or wait for a courier at an address you specify.

How's that sound? Any holes I haven't anticipated?
 

olejason

Member
Messages
5,085
Where does the held deposit come from? I can't imagine people wanting to drop a $450 deposit so they can rent a Timeline for a few days.
 

guitargod0dmw

Member
Messages
457
Seems like a cool idea but probably not something that I would do. Just some thoughts...

-If I were to rent out my gear I don't think I'd want/need a 3rd party involved to further complicate it or make a profit off of me.
-It would also seem like a long wait for someone wanting to rent if the piece to be rented needed to be sent to the 3rd party for testing and then sent to the end user. That would probably take at least a week door to door or possibly longer if the idea really took off and tons of gear was being rented.
 

AlanH

Member
Messages
2,144
It's an interesting idea but were is the security for the lender? Usually, for rentals, all the risks are taken by the rental company and there are signed, legally binding waivers to protect them. How would this work when the lender is a third party person taking all the risks on good faith?

Would I surrender my stuff over to a rental firm under a scheme like this? I don't think I would when I could just eBay stuff I no longer want and make more money, plus have the added guarantee of paypal protection.

Would I rent a pedal from an organisation like this? Well, I could just buy it used from eBay and then, if I didn't like it, sell it for the same money but I tend to buy new stuff so this wouldn't apply to me so it could have some mileage. However, for a cheap pedal (under £150) I'd just buy it based on internet reviews and youtube clips anyway. For something more expensive I'd probably test it out in a shop and then, if I like it, get it based on that personal test as I would with an amp or guitar.

If a lack of third party renters means you'd have to buy the stock yourself you'd also need to think about whether a renal item is a rentable commodity. So, a DIY tool that you'd rarely use and is too big and too expensive to keep (like a Kanga hammer) is eminently rentable, as is a wedding suit you'd only ever wear once, or a car you'd need to use when you fly to another city. Is an effects pedal really a rentable commodity given my above comments as a potential customer? Possibly not.

Sorry, I'm not meaning to be a party pooper but these are all questions which might influence your thinking about the viability of this venture; which, I guess, is why you're sensibly researching the market in the first place.
 

Zaid Crowe

Member
Messages
45
Where does the held deposit come from? I can't imagine people wanting to drop a $450 deposit so they can rent a Timeline for a few days.

That would be down to the renter. In the UK at least, this could be done on a 0% interest credit card. I've also considered more trusted renters being able to pay smaller desposits as they earn trust.
 

chankgeez

Senior Member
Messages
10,777
I like your proposal… on paper...

  • The rental fees would be held by the business that owns the app until the rental terms have been met
  • When a device is sent out for rental, it's sent to 'us' for vetting rather than directly to the renter. We ensure that it works as described, and document everything regarding its condition. Assuming it passes the test, we send this to the renter. If it fails, it goes back to the owner, and the renter is refunded in full.
  • When the renter is done, they send the pedal back to us, where we ensure it's going back as it was sent out. If it's ok, they are refunded the appropriate amount (minus rental fee). If it's damaged, we notify the owner who can decide if they simply want it replaced, or maybe aren't bothered if it's superficial wear/tear. The held deposit funds in the result of damages/theft/loss would then be passed on to the owner as compensation.

Won't this add too much cost?

Not to mention the additional time in transit.
 

Zaid Crowe

Member
Messages
45
Seems like a cool idea but probably not something that I would do. Just some thoughts...
-If I were to rent out my gear I don't think I'd want/need a 3rd party involved to further complicate it or make a profit off of me.

Event if they where to provide all the packaging, insured, and even picked the pedal up for you? Totally fair observation, just riffing :)

Without a neutral 3rd party involved - how would you police this yourself? Would you ask people for a deposit into your own account? Why would they trust you?

-It would also seem like a long wait for someone wanting to rent if the piece to be rented needed to be sent to the 3rd party for testing and then sent to the end user. That would probably take at least a week door to door or possibly longer if the idea really took off and tons of gear was being rented.

This is a concern, but there are next day couriers (Actually a service by the royal mail) that will do this. The process at the engineers end is deffinately an unkown in terms of scale. Again, trust system could be developed around devices and owners that meant that not everytime it was rented out would meant it required vetting.

TBH - you sound like an ideal candidate (as a constructive cynic!) to try this out with me - would you be game?
 

Zaid Crowe

Member
Messages
45
It's an interesting idea but were is the security for the lender? Usually, for rentals, all the risks are taken by the rental company and there are signed, legally binding waivers to protect them. How would this work when the lender is a third party person taking all the risks on good faith?

Would I surrender my stuff over to a rental firm under a scheme like this? I don't think I would when I could just eBay stuff I no longer want and make more money, plus have the added guarantee of paypal protection.

Would I rent a pedal from an organisation like this? Well, I could just buy it used from eBay and then, if I didn't like it, sell it for the same money but I tend to buy new stuff so this wouldn't apply to me so it could have some mileage. However, for a cheap pedal (under £150) I'd just buy it based on internet reviews and youtube clips anyway. For something more expensive I'd probably test it out in a shop and then, if I like it, get it based on that personal test as I would with an amp or guitar.

If a lack of third party renters means you'd have to buy the stock yourself you'd also need to think about whether a renal item is a rentable commodity. So, a DIY tool that you'd rarely use and is too big to keep is eminently rentable, as is a wedding suit you'd only ever wear once, or a car you'd need to use when you fly to another city. Is an effects pedal really a rentable commodity given my above comments as a potential customer? Possibly not.

Sorry, I'm not meaning to be a party pooper but these are all questions which might influence your thinking about the viability of this venture; which, I guess, is why you're sensibly researching the market in the first place.

This is awesome - thanks so much for taking the time to a) Think about it b) Take the time to write it down!

The security for the lender is multifactor:
  • We'd have an insured courier, which should cover transorting the device(s)
  • We'd hold the renters funds as an independent third party, so if the device was damaged, or simply never returned, we'd pay the renters funds to the owner as compensation
  • We'd need carefully considered contracts - I don't think these would be anything clever in all honesty - considered is the crucial word!
It's an interesting idea but were is the security for the lender? Usually, for rentals, all the risks are taken by the rental company and there are signed, legally binding waivers to protect them. How would this work when the lender is a third party person taking all the risks on good faith?

Also considering buying stock direct, but captial is an issue!
 

Zaid Crowe

Member
Messages
45
I like your proposal… on paper...
Won't this add too much cost?

Not to mention the additional time in transit.

The couriering cost - no, but I do have some converstation to finish with various people before I can 100% confirm that :)

Time in transit, would be 2-3 days (estimated atm!)
 

squarefrog

Member
Messages
2
-If I were to rent out my gear I don't think I'd want/need a 3rd party involved to further complicate it or make a profit off of me.

I think this could be beneficial if it worked like eBay/ Paypal where if someone nicks my pedal, or the courier breaks it I will get the guarantee that it'll be sorted for me. For something like this to work it'd definitely have to be easy for the users. I like the 'get an order, receive a box, post it' thing. I'd be happy with losing a quid or two if it meant I didn't have to deal with that.
 

AlanH

Member
Messages
2,144
This is awesome - thanks so much for taking the time to a) Think about it b) Take the time to write it down!

The security for the lender is multifactor:
  • We'd have an insured courier, which should cover transorting the device(s)
  • We'd hold the renters funds as an independent third party, so if the device was damaged, or simply never returned, we'd pay the renters funds to the owner as compensation
  • We'd need carefully considered contracts - I don't think these would be anything clever in all honesty - considered is the crucial word!
It's an interesting idea but were is the security for the lender? Usually, for rentals, all the risks are taken by the rental company and there are signed, legally binding waivers to protect them. How would this work when the lender is a third party person taking all the risks on good faith?

Also considering buying stock direct, but captial is an issue!


No problem but as a potential customer I would say that, at the moment, I wouldn't be prepared to rent from you on those terms. However, I would rent an item from a shop with an option to buy if I liked it provided my rental fee was going to be deducted from the cost of the purchase. Don't also forget that in the UK (probably like other countries) we have distance selling regulations for internet purchases. This means I could buy a pedal new and then return it within 14 days in its original condition and packaging if I decided I didn't like it. In essence this means I already have the option of trying before buying.

I hope this helps.
 
Last edited:

scolfax

Member
Messages
7,577
I love the idea but would not participate unless I knew my pedals would be insured by some reputable entity.

FWIW I have used PedalGenie and think it's a really good service.
 




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