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People in China play Chinese guitars?

Faded

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,077
that Vagrant guitar is the most derivitive Suhr knockoff. Dont they have builders with their own unique ideas? I've never seen a chinese built instrument that wasn't a clear forgery of anothers design. Who is the Chinese version of John Suhr, PRS etc.?


Most people playing guitar in China are students rather than middle class people, so they often choose Squier, Mexican Fender and Epiphone. Ibanez are very popular in China partly because their low-end models such as RG170 is hard to beat at the price level. Chinese brand only occupies a very small market share, and most of them are just junk. There are a small number of local brands that looked very promising, such as Vagrant Guitars (as you can see from the spec sheet). However, those quality Chinese instruments are not cheap and thus not popular. Chinese guitar players are much more likely to spend $800-900 dollar on an American Standard Strat or a Les Paul Tribute rather than local brands. So this is a lemon market: you can see the fake Chinese junk guitars everywhere, and the quality ones, on the other hand, cannot compete due to their lack of cost effectiveness.

Since the quality Chinese brands only produce a very small number of guitars, they are unlikely to appear in the local guitar shop. Even if there are people deciding to order one, they will think twice because they cannot find a place to try. On the other hand, it is much less risky to pick a Fender/Squier or Gibson/Epiphone in the local guitar shop.

 

3289469

New Member
Messages
2
that Vagrant guitar is the most derivitive Suhr knockoff. Dont they have builders with their own unique ideas? I've never seen a chinese built instrument that wasn't a clear forgery of anothers design. Who is the Chinese version of John Suhr, PRS etc.?
这就好比让美国人去做一把地道的二胡,还要求这个美国人要用自己的想法去制作,那么他也许能做出一把好的乐器,但也学做出来的东西就不能够叫做二胡了。
虽然我不觉得knockoff是对的,但不可否认的是knockoff对文化交流起到了积极的作用。
 

TD_Madden

KotWF
Messages
2,565
这就好比让美国人去做一把地道的二胡,还要求这个美国人要用自己的想法去制作,那么他也许能做出一把好的乐器,但也学做出来的东西就不能够叫做二胡了。
虽然我不觉得knockoff是对的,但不可否认的是knockoff对文化交流起到了积极的作用。
Certainly...first getting people interested in playing will eventually drive a wish for the "real thing".
 

Major Twang

Member
Messages
493
first trip to China in 1995...

Funny how folks that have never been there OR never bought a knock-off have such firm opinions on bashing fake guitars...

In 1965 i bought my first ``good`` guitar...a used 50's Tele.

That was a welcome change from the Japanese guitar amp combo that my father had bought me a year previous at the local Ma and Pa's music store...

Black Diamond strings...remember those...

I kept at it, and today, i'm playing a Chinese Tele with Nocaster pups, bone nut and vintage Gotoh runers plugged straight into a 5C3 Tweed Deluxe...

Me 5C3 is pumping 2x 12`Private Jack and runs O.S. 2x12AY7, 2xEL84 with Chinese adaptors. I find the 6SC7 way too microphonic.

My tele was purchased new for less than a cenoed...cost me 250$ total with the upgrades...mini pots and switch were left as is.

The Chinese workers can pump out good guitars faster than anyone else and they do.

They only need a set up...but that is a natural thing to do when you get a new guitar.

I sold my Stewmac luthier's tool and now use the Japanese Katana system... wich is much better!

I experienced with different knock off...Gretsch, Rics, all good.

Yeah i know! It is not nice to buy knock offs...

But, you'll have to live with it!!
 

maniac

Member
Messages
132
that Vagrant guitar is the most derivitive Suhr knockoff. Dont they have builders with their own unique ideas? I've never seen a chinese built instrument that wasn't a clear forgery of anothers design. Who is the Chinese version of John Suhr, PRS etc.?
I have no problem with copying the shape. China is a poor country with GDP per capita just 1/8 of the USA, and at this stage of economic development, you cannot expect much original work. The Japanese guitar makers also started by copying Western designs. As long as these brands put their own logo, it is fine with me.

I can still show you some interesting guitar design ideas from Chinese builders. This builder chooses to mount the neck joint bolts on brass rods instead of directly on the neck wood, and he claims this improves overall resonance. I have not tried his guitars so I cannot verify his claim, but this definitely seems to be an interesting improvement.





Electric guitars are very new musical instruments to the Chinese, asking the Chinese builders to create their own guitar design at this stage is not much different than asking a Western luthier to design a classical Chinese music instrument, such as the erhu, the guzheng (Koto), the pipa (Biwa), without giving him sufficient time to understand the instrument. A musical instrument represents a particular culture, and it will take quite some time for you to see the Chinese starting building guitars with original designs.
 
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maniac

Member
Messages
132
This might be a bit off-topic, but I believe that bad quality and lack of original designs in Chinese guitar is mainly due to the lack of economic development.
In the past when China was a rich country, the Chinese luthiers had built extremely high quality and gorgeous musical instruments. This pipa is built in Tang Dynasty (AD 618-907) more than a thousand years ago. It can be seen that irridescent shells were already used extensively as decorations on the top and back.
top: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rSAL5UOrXFk/UVW9ROZfdpI/AAAAAAAAAEM/R9Uf5qm20KI/s1600/C0096980.jpg
back: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1Jw8zfls8a4/UVW9TFy8szI/AAAAAAAAAEU/VjXcVJr1kzQ/s1600/C0096981.jpg
 

Faded

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,077
I think this is an excellent post and a great answer to the questions I raised.


I have no problem with copying the shape. China is a poor country with GDP per capita just 1/8 of the USA, and at this stage of economic development, you cannot expect much original work. The Japanese guitar makers also started by copying Western designs. As long as these brands put their own logo, it is fine with me.

I can still show you some interesting guitar design ideas from Chinese builders. This builder chooses to mount the neck joint bolts on brass rods instead of directly on the neck wood, and he claims this improves overall resonance. I have not tried his guitars so I cannot verify his claim, but this definitely seems to be an interesting improvement.





Electric guitars are very new musical instruments to the Chinese, asking the Chinese builders to create their own guitar design at this stage is not much different than asking a Western luthier to design a classical Chinese music instrument, such as the erhu, the guzheng (Koto), the pipa (Biwa), without giving him sufficient time to understand the instrument. A musical instrument represents a particular culture, and it will take quite some time for you to see the Chinese starting building guitars with original designs.
 

Major Twang

Member
Messages
493
This might be a bit off-topic, but I believe that bad quality and lack of original designs in Chinese guitar is mainly due to the lack of economic development.
In the past when China was a rich country, the Chinese luthiers had built extremely high quality and gorgeous musical instruments. This pipa is built in Tang Dynasty (AD 618-907) more than a thousand years ago. It can be seen that irridescent shells were already used extensively as decorations on the top and back.
top: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rSAL5UOrXFk/UVW9ROZfdpI/AAAAAAAAAEM/R9Uf5qm20KI/s1600/C0096980.jpg
back: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1Jw8zfls8a4/UVW9TFy8szI/AAAAAAAAAEU/VjXcVJr1kzQ/s1600/C0096981.jpg
not off topic...

Chinese craftmen are no 1 in my book...

one can buy a nice Tele in CHINA for less than 40$US

If some of them are duds...please remember that they are build to a price point.:munch
 

Jerrod

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
13,702
that Vagrant guitar is the most derivitive Suhr knockoff. Dont they have builders with their own unique ideas? I've never seen a chinese built instrument that wasn't a clear forgery of anothers design.
 

IPLAYLOUD

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
5,104
There was a recent year that Buick sold more cars in China than the US.
There is probably a Chinese version of TGP whith threads like:
"I'll never play a US made Guitar!"
"Made in America or Crafted in America...which is better?"
"Name your Top 10 Solid State Heads".
"Ouyang Kunpeng retires from Fuji-Gen Gakki. Wound pickups since 1958."
 

Faded

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,077
Lol you were? Did you ever wonder where Suhr gets his "original" ideas?
I get that its a hybrid of a few things but he has a lot of unique features and I think his companies output validates him as a seminal guitar designer.
 

Jerrod

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
13,702
I get that its a hybrid of a few things but he has a lot of unique features and I think his companies output validates him as a seminal guitar designer.
LOL. Love the Suhr line, but I don't see originality. I do see customer focused custom shop quality and lots of options.
 




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