Perfect Example That Tone Is In Amp, Not Hands.

smolder

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
14,223
Smolder, what you choose to play would obviously be different for anyone, but that same artificial, digital thinness in the sound would be present. That's not from his fingers, I hope!

Guys watch the Eric Johnson Gdec video. I'm too lazy to go link it. Phrasing and clean playing are total EJ sig. But it still sounds just like a Gdec.

I hear you budda... I've just seen too many guys kill with crappy equipment... and guys with good stuff stink up the place (from a tonal perspective). Granted... tone is hard to isolate from a jillion other aspects of a performance... and I do take the quest seriously. But if I'm honest with myself... I have to do more than buy the tone... I have to learn to play better.
 

stuco

Member
Messages
848
That was not enjoyable for me at all, tone aside. As far as the tone debate, it is both the player and the gear but if you suck it doesn't matter what kind of tone you have. There is a lot of great music with 'crap' guitar tones.
 

Miles

Member
Messages
3,962
The beginning showed me more that tone was in some well used reverse delay.

Apart from that, this thread is pure wind. The player and the gear make the tones - not either/or.


SIMMA DOWN NOW!!
 

DanJep

Member
Messages
225
I think this is more a matter of bad taste than gear. He could've made that l6 scream if it hadn't been for all that other modulation he was tossing on and removing.
 

El Caballo

Retired bar hopping musician
Messages
4,431
This debate again???:rolleyes: Debating this is like debating intelligent design over the big bang. It's as fruitless as it is futile. I know for myself that I can get ahold of just about any piece of gear and get my tone (or close to it) out of it.

This is the bottem line

Tone is in the ear of the artist.
Translated through his hands, and transmitted to the audience via his gear....... :bonk

What you hear has a listener is entirely your own. What you may think is "tone of the gods" will make others turn green and vomit..:barf
 

Unabender

Member
Messages
684
That was cool. Nice playing. He does a great job with the phrasing and styles of most of those guys. Except a few, I didn't listen to them all but I didn't think the EVH and Yngwie weren't even close.
Maybe he got EVH and Yngwie fingers mixed up when he changed his hands in between the artists.
 

Unabender

Member
Messages
684
EVH sounded different on every single record. His playing was very familiar, but his tone changed every single record. He largely used the same guitars.
His playing changed a lot as well. Try listening earlier VH albums, and then something like Balance (my all time favorite, btw. Really great songs). I think he is kind of those players who adapts his song writing and playing to the gear he is using at times.
 

jimfog

Senior Member
Messages
9,478
Funny....I would say that this is a perfect example of exactly the OPPOSITE point from the OP.

That sounds GREAT and precisely like Oz Noy.....all on gear I wouldn't even consider gigging.

If he had covered up the "Line 6" logos, people would be asking what the awesome amp was that he was playing.....I guaran-damn-tee it.

More proof? We certainly have members here that post copious clips of tons of different amps......and after a while, you realize they all sound the same. You have to A/B them to notice any minor, insignificant differences.
 

Ed DeGenaro

Supporting Member
Messages
21,904
Obviously, everybody's gonna' hear it differently, but try to mentally separate the badass playing from the rather mediocre timbre of the main lead tone. Sure, he's milking that L6 for everything it's got, but even those gifted paws can't turn water into wine. Saw the same kind of thing with Mike Stern once, but much worse. His playing was from the gods, but his tone on the rented gear he had was so bad, it just about ruined the performance.
I saw Oz at the Tater a few month back with a Spider Valve head and 4x12 and between the gazillion stomp boxes it sounded close enough to the 4 CDs of his I have.
But the old tone is in the hands, tone is in the gear...someg and dance...who cares? I got friends on either side of that fence. Me...I sound the same through anything, but the response is why I spent money of stuff..

As for Stern...where have you seen him with rental gear? Aren't you on the East Coast? Every time I've seen him out here it's been the same set-up Pearce and a SS Yamaha combo or a JC120. That's what he digs, just because he doesn't sound like Carlton or Ford doesn't really matter much to any one but a few guitar geeks.
 

Ed DeGenaro

Supporting Member
Messages
21,904
Funny....I would say that this is a perfect example of exactly the OPPOSITE point from the OP.

That sounds GREAT and precisely like Oz Noy.....all on gear I wouldn't even consider gigging.

If he had covered up the "Line 6" logos, people would be asking what the awesome amp was that he was playing.....I guaran-damn-tee it.

More proof? We certainly have members here that post copious clips of tons of different amps......and after a while, you realize they all sound the same. You have to A/B them to notice any minor, insignificant differences.
what he said...
 

cisspcism

Member
Messages
2,079
It ALL counts toward the final result that our GEAR produces-- before/as it- transmits the frequencies through the air and is then perceived in the brain of the listener.

The "tone is in the hands" camp argue the fact that the hands start the sequence of events and therefore are responsible for tone, sound, and timbre'. The "I sound like me no matter what I play through" or "I sound the same, no matter what gear I plug into" statements are utterly redundant and useless, imo.

After having done a bunch of studio session work, I realize that no matter what my guitar rig's tone, the engineer can reshape it using LOTS of various techniques and equipment therefore admit that no matter how much mojo my fingers may possess, the gear AND how it's utilized, matters-- AND... depending on what I'm trying to do, the amount that it matters-- varies.

Playing well/execution- that is in the hands, but TONE-- I think is likely more on the gear side-- as any engineer will "prove" in ANY studio.

AMEN!!!:JAM
 

Serious Poo

Powered by Coffee
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,400
To me, "tone" and "timbre" are things that are created between a player and the instrument. The rest of the gear only serves to amplify and augment the tone and timbre that are already there. The final result, after you add EQ, effects and overdrive is what I consider the overall "sound". Semantics to be sure, but that's how it works for me.
 

rockon1

Member
Messages
12,385
That was not enjoyable for me at all, tone aside. As far as the tone debate, it is both the player and the gear but if you suck it doesn't matter what kind of tone you have. There is a lot of great music with 'crap' guitar tones.
+1 Definately not for me.That clip was tedious for me to listen to as well. The tone was meh- washed out and it appeared as if he was laboring between the playing and tweaking the FX. Not saying I could come close to it but I wouldnt want to either. Bob
 

rob2001

Member
Messages
16,939
To me, "tone" and "timbre" are things that are created between a player and the instrument. The rest of the gear only serves to amplify and augment the tone and timbre that are already there. The final result, after you add EQ, effects and overdrive is what I consider the overall "sound". Semantics to be sure, but that's how it works for me.
I didn't read this before posting. Agree. I thought to use "sound" as the result of both but it seems to simple for such an eternal question!
 

slagg

Member
Messages
714
I think this is more a matter of bad taste than gear. He could've made that l6 scream if it hadn't been for all that other modulation he was tossing on and removing.
THIS^^
that was HORRIBLE!And this is considered good:hide2
 

buddastrat

Member
Messages
14,712
I don't get this debate.

EVH sounded different on every single record. His playing was very familiar, but his tone changed every single record. He largely used the same guitars.

The amp and the signal chain are what changed. When his old Marshall got tired, it didn't sound the same, and HE didn't sound the same. So they brought in a Soldano, and his tone was different...

Rock on. That's what I've been saying too bro'. If you play and really know what's going on, you can totally hear, digest and separate the playing from the gear.

EVH was crazy obsessed over gear. If it was all in the fingers, he should've quit hackin' up guitars and amps, and partied and banged more.
 

Dave_C

Member
Messages
14,114
Awesome thanks for posting that...I had a rough night and that cheered me up.

He has such a cool style. He has almost no vibrato when soloing, but it sounds cool. He's like a mesh of Beck, Fripp, Landau...just a very hip player.

He recently released a new CD and it gets much play at my house, it's very good, check it out if you haven't.
Glad to hear this cheered you up! Oz did a clinic at Oswego College a couple years ago and that's when I heard about him through a friend that attended and taught at the same clinic. Yep, his style is really unique! I'll definitely be checking out more of him!
 


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