Perfect Example That Tone Is In Amp, Not Hands.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Dave_C, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    I agree! This was sent to me purely for the incredible musical value and I really enjoyed it despite the less-than-stellar timbres coming out of the guitar track. It was only after catching the Line 6 logo that I thought about the "other" dimension provided with this clip. It was like, "Geez, no wonder his tone isn't really happening. This would make for great discussion on TGP"! LOL.
     
  2. TheX

    TheX Member

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    Tone is in every part of the chain, especially the hands.
     
  3. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    This is another perfect example of the title of this thread! Very cool how he mimic'ed styles and got kinda' close to some of the tones, but he was pretty far off from most and many were just not good at all, in an absolute sense (fizzy, bright, thin - unlike the originals).
     
  4. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    Man, I couldn't agree more with everything you've been saying so far in this thread! Amazing how you're hearing exactly the same things I am!
     
  5. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    Well, people who claim tone is all in the hands very often inadvertently acknowledge otherwise when they talk about trying to cop early EVH tone or early RF tone or EJ Cliffs of Dover tone or [insert artist/era here]. How can the these artists have a "preferred tone era" when their hands haven't changed?
     
  6. El Caballo

    El Caballo Retired bar hopping musician

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    I couldn't disagree with you more!!!!!!Are you def, or do you just have bad ears? :D I can hear tonal variance in all of those clips. Did he nail them exactly? No, he's just one musician emulating a bunch of others, but he came pretty damn close! I'll like to see you post something (other then words) that can dipute this......How about it Dave_C???? Let's hear you play!!! Your the tone Doc right?? :Devil
     
  7. El Caballo

    El Caballo Retired bar hopping musician

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    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Give us an example!!!!!


    :clips
     
  8. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    Well, the other thing we're forgetting is that many great players also really know how to dial in gear and how to work within its limitations. For example, after hitting just a few notes, the timbre-sensitive player can tell that they're not going to get singing, sustaining notes out of a rig, so they don't attempt it because they know they'll just get a thud followed by silence and it'll sound like poop. They'll adjust their playing to suit the gear because they know that hands alone will not make the gear do something that's physically impossible for it to do.
     
  9. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    On the contrary, I was first disappointed in the tone and then saw the Line 6 logo and realized why. That said, I've also heard some pretty cool tones out of those amps. Not great, but better than what Oz had dialed in. If he had been using one of those patches, his tone would have been better too.
     
  10. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    I've seen Mike a few times out here in Rochester, NY and once in Detroit and he's had a different backline every time. I loved his tone with the SS Yamaha stuff when I saw him at Milestones in Rochester, NY in the mid 90's. Nothing like RF, but I love 1000s of tones other than his (why would you infer otherwise?) and Mike's tone that night was out of this world, right along with his playing - the perfect combination of great tones and great playing...on solid-state amps and solid-state pedals.

    The show I'm talking about in which his tone SUCKED major a$$ was the Rochester International Jazzfest about 3-4 years ago. He had apparently rented a Twin and Super from a local shop and ran a few boss pedals into it. The amps may have been poorly maintained or it could have been the weather (rainy and cool) or any number of factors, but his tone was piercing, ratty, fizzy, thin and just totally horrid. A few times during the show, even he look totally frustrated with it, especially when he went into his "rock mode", because he couldn't get that smooth, singing tone he's known for. The chorusing was there, but every time he went for a long sustained note, it just didn't come out and he'd have to adjust his playing to compensate.

    Perfect example of tone being in the gear and not the hands.

    As for you, your tone has been all over the map! Yes, the style always sounds like you, but the tones have been as different as the gear has been different.
     
  11. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    I can post all kinds of clips but they weren't made to prove this point. They were made to demo gear and get feedback and advice on recording and tweaking to get specific sounds. I'm no Tone Doc at all, but just trying to play and sound better, like everybody else. Here are a few clips I've posted recently while trying to dial in my new SOD II. They don't prove anything or represent what I think is my "ultimate tone" just yet, but simply chronicle a progression in trying to dial in a new toy. It's all me, but my tone is pretty different in all the clips...even when using the same PUPs and same amp, mainly because the EQ was different. For example, the second clip and first part of the last clip both use neck/middle FL SC PUPs on a Suhr Classic into the OD2 channel on the SOD II into the same cab/speaker and it's the same player (me!), but wow what different tones! I had the amp dialed differently for both clips. Or, was it my technique on the last one that made it brighter and snappier?

    http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9366582
    http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9420496
    http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9307499
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2010
  12. Billion81

    Billion81 It'd be a whole lot cooler if you did. Gold Supporting Member

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    I don't know on this topic. I dodged it for awhile but I keep coming back..Like a car crash. I hope someone hasn't already posted this but alas..We'll watch again.

    How about this-EJs "Tone" in James Santiago's Hands Or EJs Rig. Discuss-
     
  13. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    Not inferring anything...but fact is the majority of Dumble style digging players hate Stern's tone.

    As for me...I'm glad you think it was all over the map, but I will have to seriously disagree and seeing that we're talking about me now I think I know better than any one listen to an occasional clip.
    For starters no matter what amp, whether pre-amp gain or not.,I tend to dial stuff to get a certain result...some of it is achieved with gain/compression levels some of it with eq, some with change in how/where the string is attacked, etc...
    And I gladly post this again, two amps BF Bassman and Soldano...not dialed to sound the same, only turned on from when they were last used...
    http://www.eddegenaro.com/audio/abback.mp3

    Any difference between the two is small enough to be tweaked into the same, but really for me it's not enough a difference to care.
     
  14. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    It's in James' hands I played with him at the Spud and that's his sound afaic.
     
  15. El Caballo

    El Caballo Retired bar hopping musician

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    Your tones on your demo weren't dramatically different to my ears. You obviously have spent some time wood shedding so I'm purplexed as to how you feel the amp has more to do with tone then your hands.

    Tone starts in your head/ear
    translates through your hands
    transmitts through your amp.........There is no two ways about. Two different musicians can play through identical gear w/identical settings and sound completely different........Everybody knows this

    Nice clip of Oz playing BTW....you got some chops too..
     
  16. dsmc80

    dsmc80 Member

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    Is this thread a joke? Not trying to troll, I just don't understand. The tone was terrible and that guy sounded awful!
     
  17. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    I don't know how you can label anything that D-style dudes dig as a "fact" (ha, ha, ha), but I dig Stern's tones because they're musical, the distortion is smooth enough to not grate on my nerves and, overall, itr allows him to express himself perfectly!

    Ed, I've listened to more than occasional clips of you, buddy! I love your playing and have listened to a bunch of it. We all tend to dial stuff to approximate the ideal tones in our head but the endpoints are all a little different, even yours, at least to my ears. In fact, your tones have been different enough between different amps so as to influence my buying decisions one way or the other! It's hard for any of us to predict what someone else is going to key in on in any given clip.

    Yep, those tones are very close, although I did hear something change at 0:17, which I'm guessing would sound even more noticeable in the room. At 0:17, the highs and high mids got softer and "fluffier"...less edge and attack overall, which I suppose could also be caused by switching from pick to fingers (another type of "gear" change). I don't know enough about those two amps to know which might be which though.

    This example points to what I said earlier about some guys simply knowing how to dial gear more effectively than others to get their target tones. You're not making those amps sound similar by what you're playing or how you're playing it (unless it's a pick-to-fingers switch), but by very skillful manipulation of the gear you're using. This perfectly supports the title of the thread!
     
  18. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    Well, first of all, you made my day by mentioning the assumed woodshedding and chops! Thanks! But, I need to tell you that I only exposed you to the best parts! There's often some ugly stuff before and after! Ha, ha, ha. I'm really just a hack hobbyist, weekend warrior, full-time engineer by day who has never practiced more than about 3-4 hours/week (unless you go back to high school summers) and occasionally gets lucky for just long enough to make a clip out of it! LOL.

    But, I'm surprised you didn't think those tones were all that different. The first is a bridge HB into the non-HRM channel of the SOD II and the last two are the neck/middle SC position into the HRM channel with a lot less gain. The last one is a lot brighter than the second one. Are you sure you're not keying in on style instead of timbre? How can a bridge HB not sound very different than the neck/middle SC slot?
     
  19. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    Yeah that's one of 4 changes. My point is that without laboring to get them close this is how they sound. Clearly gear has an impact, but to me it all starts with bone tone...which for the life of me I can't understand how you see the opposite from this.
     
  20. jimfog

    jimfog Senior Member

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    This whole thread sounds like a big excuse to rationalize an amp acquisition fetish.
     

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