Perfect Example That Tone Is In Amp, Not Hands.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Dave_C, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. zephaniah zion

    zephaniah zion Member

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    Looks like this one is gonna keep going. Funny thing is that we all talk about the tone of a Super Reverb from the 60's or a 70's Marshall "this"
    or an 80's Dumble. The tone is in the stuff. The genius is in guys both famous and not, that make stuff musical. The same player with "said" chops will sound different on a Crate GT212 vs a vintage handwired AC30. His licks and attact will translate but the tone will not.:D What he plays and how he plays it will sound good, but the eq, sound and tone will not.
     
  2. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    click on the mp3 link on post 73 a few posts back...and then make the same statement...
     
  3. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    It sure does...and funnily enough there is no need for it. Want a new toy...bought the new toy...dig the new toy...it's all good. But even though I'll accept that if it "responds" right to you you'll have more fun and will sound better, I do believe that gear matters very little when push comes to shove.
     
  4. zephaniah zion

    zephaniah zion Member

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    I hear where you're coming from. Difference in ears and opinion. The good thing is that we all hear and see things differently but I hear where you are coming from.:D
     
  5. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    less a difference of ears than a difference in determining what matters...
     
  6. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    Well, he's playing a few EJ-style licks but, even when he's not, he's getting tone that's very similar to EJ's tone, proving my point pretty well. His tone is not as smooth as EJ's COD tone and his right hand is nowhere near as accurate, but he clearly shows how he shapes his tone one layer at a time...with his gear, not his hands!
     
  7. tejastubes

    tejastubes Member

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    that was cool
     
  8. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    How can you not see that no matter what you do with your hands those amps are not going to sound like a Martin acoustic? Similarly, you can't make a Soldano set for a clean tone sound like a Bandmaster set for a dirty tone with your hands alone. You have to specifically dial them in to sound similar. Has absolutely nothing to do with your hands and everything to do with how you adjusted the knobs.

    I do agree, however, that if you take a really expressive, dynamic distorting amp, like a good D-style(!), a really good player will be able to manipulate that distortion and that dynamic range with much more finesse than a mediocre player and will get a wider range of tones out of it than a player just bashing out power chords. It's just like the EJ gear example. The guy was able to dial in tones very similar to EJs, but his right hand was a little sloppy at times, which obscured the baseline tone a little with extraneous string noise, etc. So, you definitely have to get into the ballpark technique-wise to make sure you're feeding similar data into the amp.
     
  9. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    Sigh...the clip was in response to some one telling me let me see you make an old Fender sound like a modern high gainer....
    As for not sounding like an acoustic...different instrument altogether.

    I'm not enjoying arguing over sematincs like I used to...so i'll go get ready to go see Mike Miller play tonight.
     
  10. El Caballo

    El Caballo Retired bar hopping musician

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    It's not that I didn't think that they were different, it's just that the clips sounded like the same guitar player (obviously). Yeah you can get a woodier timbre or a brighter snap by switching pick-up positions or changing your attack to the strings.

    To me tone is just as important as style in building an identity on the instrument. SRV sounds like SRV no matter the amp/guitar/pick-up. Part of it is style, the other part is how he percieves the sound coming from the amp...he's going to tweek it until his liking

    Haven't you ever noticed that usually no matter the amp that you are playing you'll usually fuss with it until you get your sound or close to it?

    If tone came from the amp, you'd never have to touch a thing.

    It starts in your head/ear.
     
  11. jimfog

    jimfog Senior Member

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    Oh sorry.......I thought we were assuming that all involved are intelligent enough that we can skip the obvious, "Duh!" part of this conversation.
     
  12. stuco

    stuco Member

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    So I think here is a question that gets to the heart of this (dare I say pointless) discussion.

    Let's say Brian May hands you his guitar hooked up to his rig with his settings etc, when you play it will you have his tone or yours?

    [​IMG]
     
  13. redshark1105

    redshark1105 Member

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    I think the misconception of the "tone is in the hands" gets more ridiculous because people look for an answer that is black or white when in reality is gray.
    Tone is not in an amp, fingers, guitar or pedal. Tone starts in your heart and ends in the speaker cab in a certain room. EVERYTHING MATTERS!!!! and contributes in a certain way to create "a tone".
     
  14. buddastrat

    buddastrat Member

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    Hit it on the head. I was thinking that same thing when i read that post you responded too. Yes they have good hands and ears and know how to dial sounds up.
     
  15. zephaniah zion

    zephaniah zion Member

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    This is more like it. LOL!:D
     
  16. dcooper830

    dcooper830 Member

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    Great playing. Ice pick tone.

    BTW: Tone is BOTH in the fingers and the gear.


    /thread.
     
  17. buddastrat

    buddastrat Member

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    A few years back at the music shop, had 5 guys play through a pod, they'll all sound distinctive by their phrasing chord voicings, and the way they attack with the pick and articulate notes with their fret hand. We knew all of them and could tell blindfolded who was who but we still all had that thin, sterile pod tone. Easy to separate though. Now a pod is a great tool, I think if you screw with it and eq it, use all kinda of tricks, you can make it sound decent and like a real amp. But that wasn't the point of that quick experiment.


    OTOH I often hear someone like Neal Schon tend to sound the same no matter what he's using. Part of it, is his playing, he bends his pick up, (Bensons style) and gets a thin, slicing sound. Plus he uses a ton of distortion, delay and verb. So that kind've buries everything, and the amp doesn't matter as much in relation to all that junk, but that sharp pick tone comes through!

    Still hen any of my favorite players that I've listened to, switch amps, it's drastic change and I notice it big time. Look at how crazy obsessed they get over gear too. If it didn't make them sound better, they wouldn't do it.

    Maybe there are some people that can't separate a player's touch from the gear, like they hear in black and white, or only hear one thing, sort've color blind but for hearing.
     
  18. hudpucker

    hudpucker Member

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    See sig.




    Oh yeah. Oz Noy is a BAAAAAAD motherfu....
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2010
  19. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    You're getting way too serious and grouchy, Ed!!! Lighten up, dude!!! Anybody who's been around a while knows you can get just about any sound out of any amp, as long as you don't have volume restrictions. But, you're missing the point altogether. You're not making that old Fender sound like a Soldano with your hands alone! It's physically and electronically impossible. Enjoy the concert.
     
  20. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    Well, now we're starting to agree. You're focusing in on style and not just tone. I agree that SRV's style came through with anything he plugged into, but his timbre was all over the map.

    In any case, you seem to have contradicted yourself with these back-to-back statements.

    Yes! If tone were only in your hands, you wouldn't have to fuss with the amp to get your tone. You could force it to sound like whatever you wanted with your hands alone.

    Huh? You just said that you have to fuss with the amp to get your tone....and that's because the amo is the the tone!
     

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