Pete Thorn's Suhr SL68 Tone Match

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by sinasl1, May 5, 2012.

  1. sinasl1

    sinasl1 Member

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    Really cool to turn on the Axe FX today, pull up the preset and add a bit of delay, and just play, and feel like no tweaking necessary. There's the sound. I feel like now I'm screwed though, I'll have to make more IR's and try and match all my amps, in order to be fully happy, haha. Making my IR was a big deal to me... I want to do a few other speakers (Scumback papar voice coil M and H, and a V30, and Weber Grey Wolf, and maybe a Vox Blue and regular Celestion Greenback).
     
  2. Muzz

    Muzz Member

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    Lol, I think that post reached a new level of hyperbole unknown to us mere mortals. While reading it I was even hearing the usual soundtrack you can hear in the movies while the leader gives the speech before the final battle. You almost made me cry. :cry: :)

    Now seriously, we are lucky to have two products that offer us to do this kind of things that most of us did not even think were possible not long ago.
     
  3. shasha

    shasha Member

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    Quick question about your IR's here. Do you generally have a go to setup for the mics for each one or does it vary from project to project. I mean you'd obviously have to set everything up each time, but do you know that with cab A that you are going to use mic 1 off axis about 2", etc?
     
  4. sinasl1

    sinasl1 Member

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    I always gravitate towards a 57 mixed with something else, with the 57 predominant. Usually at the cap edge, pretty close. Like the pic in the vid. I've been using a SE VR1 ribbon lately for the 2nd mic, to fill out the sound a bit.
     
  5. R.D.

    R.D. Member

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    Pete …,


    Not sure which forum you frequent the most, so I’ll post this on a couple of ‘em ….


    Can you comment on what you’d to to the TONE MATCH Axe- preset to pump it up for a solo ?


    Would you just use the internal +12db boost in the Amp block ? Or would you use a dirt pedal to add more gain ( like a real amp ) … ?


    THANKS ….
     
  6. overunderdrive

    overunderdrive Senior Member

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    Dear Pete,

    please, please, PLEASE do likewise with a clean and semi-clean tone.

    there just seems to be so much more nuance and character to the cleaner stuff, it would be very interesting to hear if you would be as inspired by some cleaner tone matching...
     
  7. KennyM

    KennyM Supporting Member

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    I listened on a pair of Adam S3A's and there is a noticeable difference, however the difference IMO is not any larger than the difference between two of the same amps, strings, speaker cabs or same amp/speaker on a different day. As pointed out, further advanced tweaking on the Axe FX might get it closer.

    Just got my Axe FXII Friday and haven't had a whole lot of time with it yet, but I'm really impressed with how the various amps feel and sound.
     
  8. sinasl1

    sinasl1 Member

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    That's a good question- I'd probably try the amp block boost, and if I didn't like that I'd try the drive block with a TS808 with level up high and gain low. Or the treble boost or mid boost. The BB sounds pretty cool too.
     
  9. sinasl1

    sinasl1 Member

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    thanks! Ya this stuff is getting really good, isn't it? :) Once you get a good IR (this is HUGE) and then Tone Match it, it's pretty damn close, I think so too. Not exactly the same, but....
     
  10. JubileeMan 2555

    JubileeMan 2555 Member

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    From my limited 3-day experience with this unit, I'd argue its probably possible for you to adjust parameters to get the Matched tone to sound BETTER then the original.

    My reasoning is that there are EQ placement and amp clipping options that could possibly fatten up or create an even clearer example of the Suhr amp. An idealized version where you could think of it as finding a perfect holy-grail set of tubes for your amp to improve an already good sound...

    Who knows if I'm right, but I'd say we might be limiting our tonal possibilities if we settle for an exact match of a tube amp when its very possible to go beyond (which, btw, is what I WANT To see SS amps do.. for too long they have simply tried to do their best to be equals to tube amps. I want them to go above and beyond.)
     
  11. stratzrus

    stratzrus Philadelphia Jazz, Funk, and R&B Silver Supporting Member

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    :agree

    In many cases this is true.
     
  12. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Supporting Member

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    Pete, do you feel it was worthwhile to capture the IR of your cab - even if you didn't end up tone matching? Meaning, will you use this IR of your cab going forward in other instances? Do you find it on the same level as the RW or Ownhammer IR's (or possibly even better?).
    I'm hoping people start to shoot IR's of their cabinets (and inline processing) and share online.
    Can I do this without an external preamp? EDIT: forgot, all I have is an AKGC3000 which is a condenser that requires phantom power so in my case the answer is that I need an external mic pre with phantom power I suppose. Although my bud would surely loan me an SM57 or similar.
     
  13. Fractal Audio

    Fractal Audio Member

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    There is NO substitute for shooting an IR of the cab. IMO, this is the single most important thing you can do. Everything else is attempting to learn the cab IR through an indirect method and then you have inseparability.

    If you shoot the IR then do a Tone Match you can change the cab after or do another IR with a different mic or mic position and your matching data is still valid.
     
  14. Husky

    Husky Gold Supporting Member

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    It really depends if you are talking about direct or not.
    Playing and listening only thru in ears is not a real situation for most guys.
    Not feeling the tone behind you on stage is a very different experience. If you are recording only then not so much of an issue but rack processors are not so easy to tweak on the fly. Then there is the feel thing, one person might have no issue with emulated non tube sound sources but some do. Pete is a great enough player to bulldog his way through sounds that might not be exactly what he wants to hear. I like the voltage swing of having 300VDC on my tubes cause I'm a has been. If my tone and guitar setup isn't perfect for me I have trouble playing anything, there will always be something special about tubes. They do feel different to me. Non of this is really a criticism at all towards the Axe, I own 2 of them myself, a new one and an older one and as a processor alone they are easily worth the price of admission. All these amp and match EQ type stuff is just icing on the cake, great units and I no longer own any other processor except a beat up old M-one. Most people listening won't hear a bit of difference and my god what a wonderful recording tool !
    I think the mistake is when someone thinks ANY one piece of gear will replace all their other stuff. They sell everything , by something like this and then they feel like they are missing something. I think Axe should have an oddurama setting so when you play a PLexi you start to smell the cobwebs and old crusty parts start to burn off that mildew. Old Fender style Tweeds you smell the old lacquer tweed and pine.
    I still miss my old Bradshaw system where EVERYTHING was accessible instantaneous on a switch and easily loaded in to presets or gave me random access to any effect. The effects had all the controls at my finger tips. Of course the cartage of a 20 space double deep rack and amps and power amps, cabinets etc was stupid. I usually had to do gigs for cartage since moving the rig was $300 or so as was the initial cost of all the gear equal to a decent car but IMO it was the best way no compromise. Roadie not included though.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2012
  15. stratzrus

    stratzrus Philadelphia Jazz, Funk, and R&B Silver Supporting Member

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    :agree

    I love my Axe FX but I really want a PT100 too. Each brings something special to the game and if you can swing it, why not?
     
  16. shasha

    shasha Member

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    That's a great question. I'm finding that with the tone matching it has a heck of a lot to do with my playing and even then going back and forth a few times, tweaking and then redoing my take gets me closer (for tone, not amp matching).

    Oh, and thanks for the reply to my question Pete.
     
  17. sinasl1

    sinasl1 Member

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    Yes my IR is really on a high level I think- since I used a great speaker, great cab, and great mics, and a $2000 pre, at 24 bit 88.2k... then through some subtle but great processing (waves 1176 and Steven Slate VCC). It was basically identical to the real mic'd sound, when I compared it afterwards, which is consistent with what Mike from Red Wirez has told me- that the sound of a good IR is virtually indistinguishable from the real mic'd sound. I wish I had a better solid state power amp here, to send the test tone from the Axe FX through the speaker- that's the only no-so-hot piece of gear I used. But it didn't seem to matter much.
     
  18. sinasl1

    sinasl1 Member

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    I'm with John on all this, see it's just about using the tools a situation dictates.

    I think alot of guys who buy an Axe should really get an SL68. And alot of guys who might get an SL68 might actually be happier with the Axe. It's funny.

    If you love tubes cooking, and the sound of an amp in a room, through a great cab, and that's your deal, don't sell all your stuff and try to replace it with a digital box and some sort of FRFR system!

    If you live in an apartment and travel to sessions and can't ever crank amps, don't buy a 100 watt handwired head and some attenuator and expect it to rock your world- you'll just be frustrated. Get an Axe FX!

    I'm really really lucky in that I can have both, and do, and I use them both for different things.

    my .02
     
  19. Fractal Audio

    Fractal Audio Member

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    Re: power amp for obtaining IR:
    The quality of the power amp isn't really that important. As long as the response is flat. The Axe-Fx does some fancy math and removes the distortion from the measurement. Most solid-state power amps are very flat, their distortion performance is usually where they vary.
     
  20. sinasl1

    sinasl1 Member

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    cool, thanks Cliff- good to know. The only amp I had around the house was the power amp from a all-in-one powered PA system/mixer thing! But it's like 300w and it seemed to work fine.
     

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