Peters Dual Channel VS. the JP50

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by 57special, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. 57special

    57special Silver Supporting Member

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    Has anyone played both of these? Any comments? How many tones from the JP 50 are sacrificed from the dual channel? And are there any tones available on the Dual Channel that aren't on the JP 50?
     
  2. JamesPeters

    JamesPeters Member

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    The Dual Channels both have more sounds, plus are easier to use. Although that depends on the configuration you order. For instance the Classic Overdrive preamp has three boost settings and the Lead Overdrive has two boost settings, making 5 "voicings" (vs. the JP-50's 4 voicings). Also the Lead Overdrive cleans up much more easily than the JP-50's, from the gain control or the guitar's volume knob. The Classic Overdrive preamp has a more classic sound compared to the JP-50's voicings 1/2/3 too, with a better clean sound on the lowest boost setting. And the mini EQ boost switches aren't required to get the best sounds from each voicing, since each preamp is set the way it sounds best (the JP-50 required a lot of switching to get the best from each voicing).

    Of course if you order a Dual Channel with a Clean or Modern High Gain channel, those are voicings which aren't available on the JP-50. :)

    These are new designs made to be more versatile and arguably (in my opinion, and I'm picky) better sounding. Since I was able to split the higher gain and lower gain voicings into different preamps and redesign them, it allowed for that.

    If you have any more questions or want specific details, feel free to email or call me.
     
  3. 57special

    57special Silver Supporting Member

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    I thought the Clean preamp was the same as setting 1 on the JP50, while the Classic Lead was the same as Setting 2. Also thought that setting 4 on the JP 50 was similiar to the Modern High Gain. I guess i'm wrong , then? The Modern High Gain is something else again? I love setting 4 on the JP 50 (well, i like just about everything on it), even though i'm by no means a "metal" guy. I love the tight sizzle on the bottom end it gives my tired old strat.
    So the Clean preamp is even cleaner than setting 1 on the JP 50?
    Love the JP 50, btw. had a JP 10 which i liked a lot, but the JP 50 seems to have more dimension, and i believe it gets almost as quiet as the JP10 for home playing. The only thing i don't like is all the switches, because i feel like there's always an even better sound if i tweak just a little bit more ( I'm not a tweaker) . The good news is that it's pretty hard to get a bad sound out of the amp, no matter where the switches are. I DO like the resonance control a lot, and also the Modern/Vintage thingy, which is subtle but discernable.
    With this post i was also sorta fishing for someone to pipe up and say, "I've played the Dual Channel, and it sounds great, but doesn't seem to have the mojo that the JP50 has." I know you're not going to say that , James, but if the Dual Channel has all the quality of sound that the JP 50 has + more convenience it's going to be interesting.
     
  4. JamesPeters

    JamesPeters Member

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    The Classic Overdrive is similar to the JP-50's voicings 1/2/3--still different, but similar overall.

    The Lead Overdrive is similar to the JP-50's voicing 4 but more classic sounding/feeling, cleans up better.

    The Clean and Modern High Gain designs are new.

    You could say the Modern High Gain is a step up from the JP-50's voicing 4 and the Lead Overdrive is a sort of step down, in terms of aggression. But there's enough overlap that you can choose the Lead Overdrive or Modern High Gain based on your preferences, without feeling like you're missing out on the JP-50's voicing 4. Each preamp was designed to be best at what it does, and also more versatile in its functionality than the JP-50's voicing 4. Some people felt voicing 4 was "too high gain", "not friendly enough" and such. Some felt it "wasn't high gain enough" etc. I figured this time I'd make it very clear what's what and let people decide what they want.

    So the Clean preamp is even cleaner than setting 1 on the JP 50?

    Yes. The JP-50 was never meant to get good clean sounds. People just happened to like them, to my surprise. :) The Classic Overdrive alone gets a cleaner sound than the JP-50 is capable of, and the Clean is really meant to be clean.

    I tried naming them appropriately... :)

    Love the JP 50, btw. had a JP 10 which i liked a lot, but the JP 50 seems to have more dimension, and i believe it gets almost as quiet as the JP10 for home playing.

    Thank you! I knew someone would finally publicly say these things, eventually. :) I'd been trying to tell people that for nearly two years but almost no one believed me.

    The only thing i don't like is all the switches, because i feel like there's always an even better sound if i tweak just a little bit more ( I'm not a tweaker) .

    I figured the amp "felt like it had too many switches" and that's why the Dual Channel's interface is cleaner.

    The good news is that it's pretty hard to get a bad sound out of the amp, no matter where the switches are.

    Thanks! The Dual Channels are easier to dial in too--the ranges have been refined.

    I DO like the resonance control a lot, and also the Modern/Vintage thingy, which is subtle but discernable.

    Those features are on the Dual Channel too, so no worries. :)

    With this post i was also sorta fishing for someone to pipe up and say, "I've played the Dual Channel, and it sounds great, but doesn't seem to have the mojo that the JP50 has." I know you're not going to say that , James, but if the Dual Channel has all the quality of sound that the JP 50 has + more convenience it's going to be interesting.

    I'll put it to you this way. A local customer sold both his JP-10 and JP-50 recently and is buying a Dual Channel. :)

    I wouldn't have discontinued the JP-50 and replaced it with the Dual Channel amps if there was anything I felt people would miss. There is no "step down" in terms of quality, tone, etc. Even the noise levels are lower, despite the fact it's now a channel switching amp. I "went to town" on the new designs.

    You can imagine how many others are thinking what you're thinking, and how frustrating it can be for me . :) I'm glad you actually asked this and were open about your feelings. This is the first time I've been able to answer this directly in public.
     
  5. 57special

    57special Silver Supporting Member

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    Yes, i can see how you'd feel "trapped' by the critical success of the JP50, if you thought it could be improved upon.
     
  6. rjmmusic

    rjmmusic Member

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    You'll have to let us know when you compare both amps yourself. ;)
     
  7. stu42

    stu42 Member

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    So...I'm the guy that sold both my JP-10 and JP-50 and I'm just waiting for my Dual Channel to be built. I've played through about 5 Dual Channels so I've heard all the preamps at various times.

    The JP-50 is unquestionably a great amp. I considered actually keeping it and just buying a new Dual Channel but after thinking about it I realized that I couldn't really afford to do that and I didn't think it was necessary.

    To compare the JP-50 to a Dual Channel you'd have to compare it to a Dual Channel with a Classic Overdrive and Lead Overdrive combo - as James has suggested. I haven't spent as much time playing the Classic overdrive preamp compared to the Lead Overdrive so I can't comment as clearly about it as James can but in my experience it's probably a bit more Marshally whereas voicings 1,2 & 3 on the JP-50 have a bit more of a Hiwatt kind of vibe to them - particularly voicing 2. I think there's a bit more sparkle and openness in the Classic Overdrive.

    Comparing the Lead Overdrive with Voicing 4 on the JP-50 the Lead Overdrive channel doesn't get as much overdrive. Then again, I would never use voicing 4 with the gain above 3:00 o'clock at the max anyway so that's not something I really miss. The overdrive level of the Lead Overdrive is similar to JP-50 voicing 4 with the gain at about 1:00 o'clock or a bit more. They actually have a lot of similarity in the tone but I'd say the Lead Overdrive is a tiny bit drier sounding - a little less glassy. James' new design also makes it more dynamic and punchy sounding - less compressed. We compared my JP-50 against one of the first Lead Overdrive channels he built and they were, like I said, very very similar but the greater picking responsiveness of the Lead Overdrive was something that appealed to me. It also cleans up much better than Voicing 4 on the JP-50. This is something that I really dig about that preamp.

    The new Clean preamp is much different than JP-50 voicing 1. It's really meant to be a clean channel - as opposed to the JP-50 which does have nice cleans but doesn't have a lot of clean headroom. I know he's changed the clean design somewhat since the last time I heard it but you can expect it to be something along the lines of a BF Fender (with the sparkle and shimmer and slightly scooped tone) but with the ability to have either dial in a fatter, rounder tone and / or more preamp gain for some nice mild overdrive that you'd get on a cranked Fender - but without having to crank it.

    The previous clean design that I played was strictly clean - with no ability to dial in a bit of mild overdrive. It was VERY dynamic and punchy like a 4-input Hiwatt with insane amounts of clean headroom and also had a really nice shimmer to it. It would seriously shake the walls and kick you in the head when you punched the strings. We talked about it and James thought about it and decided it would be better to make it a little more friendly with less of that "gets stupid loud really easily" factor. The ability to dial in a bit of grit, as well, is great in my opinion.

    The big reason for me selling the JP-50 was that I wanted to be able to get more instant gratification when changing from a full-out high-gain tone to a medium gain or clean tone. I enjoyed messing with all the controls to see how that affected the tone and, like you say, if you tweak it there are an amazing variety of excellent tones to be had in that amp. I still really like that amp but I'm going with the Dual Channel for convenience and also for the even greater range of tones that are available.

    I'm getting the Clean & Lead Overdrive combination. With that I'll get a wider range of tones - but, that said, there will be a number of in-between tones that I won't be able to dial in that the JP-50 has. However, it will cover the ground that I'm looking for which is: nice clean for jazz and other stuff where you want a real clean tone, bluesy kinds of overdrive (either from turning up the gain on the clean channel or rolling down the guitar volume on the lead channel), classic medium-gain Mashall-like rock tones and, finally, sweet lead tones.

    I probably spend less time with the medium-gain tones than the rest so I don't need those as much. However, if someone liked that kind of thing then the Classic OD channel is cool for that.

    My two cents.
     
  8. 57special

    57special Silver Supporting Member

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    STu,
    thanks for your thoughts... i believe i have your old amp, btw. # is 03002, and it doesn't have a 1/2 power switch. I got this to try out , with the thinking being that i would resell it if i ;
    a) didn't like it

    or

    B) liked it a lot, and decided to get one of the dual channels

    Well , i seem to be liking it more and more, as I'm finding out how to marry it up with my guitars. My 335 sounds outrageously good, both clean ,dirty, and everything in between (it IS a nice guitar, just got a new (old, really) pup to stick in it to make it sound even nicer) no matter what channel i use.
    I just figured out how to get my strat sounding good, which was th opposite of what you'd think. Totally scoop the mids, bass 1/2 switch down, treble switch up and on 1/2, then turn down tone knobs on guitar to taste. Beautiful , bell like cleans on just the right side of glassy, and sweet, pure OD sounds.
    Other guitars are no-brainers, just about any setting sounds good, some are spectacular.

    some thoughts;

    1) that 4 position switch on the back (power damper?) should always be on 4. That is when the amp sounds it's best, clearest , and most dynamic, and the other settings , while OK, just progressively degrade the tone and response. It does bring the volume down quite a bit, but the MV is so good on the front (I could get a clearer , better OD tone at low volume with the JP50 than i could with the Aiken Tomcat (12 watts) with it's attenuator engaged) that i think the damper switch can be eliminated. I don't have the triode/pentode thing on this one either, but i remember that the pentode on the JP10 sounded better , as it does on most amps, the Kingsley Deluxe perhaps being an exception.

    2) I can hear Hiwatt in this thing, definitely, but it has the ability to "blur" a bit more, and not always be so damned aggressive, which is useful , especially for blues. Also seems to be sweeter on the highs. Wizards are another amp that are compared to Hiwatts (Canadian too, eh?) but they don't sound much like the Peters, though there are a few models of Wizards. i would say that the Wizards have taken the hiwatt/marshall aggression to a new level, and seem to really have distinctive, growly, mids, whereas the JP50 takes the Hiwatt sound, makes it WAY more versatile both in gain and tone, and has developed the highs so they sound sweeter and more delicate.
    Both amps have outstanding clarity. I find the Wiz to be a bit limited, but that's because i don't play metal, or even much hard rock... perhaps head bangers would find the JP50 too refined? It's certainly got the gain , and cranking up the volume really gives some grunt ...

    gotta go, more later.
     
  9. JamesPeters

    JamesPeters Member

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    Thanks guys. A few notes to 57Special:

    -The 4-position "Output Drive" feature isn't on the Dual Channel amps. It was provided to allow each voicing of the JP-50 to have a better range of dynamics/power (some preferred it at lower settings if they used voicing 4 with the gain really high, for instance). With the new designs, and since they're separate preamps, this feature is no longer required at all.

    -The "low power" mode on the Dual Channel amps is a triode switch. You'll find it sounds quite natural--if anything you might want to turn up the presence a bit but otherwise it sounds very similar to "full power".

    -The Lead Overdrive has more gain than Stu says. :) I'd say the gain level is about the same as the JP-50's voicing 4 with the gain control set at 2:30-3:00 (not 1:00). It sounds smoother, more classic and more articulate than voicing 4 of the JP-50 though (which is apparently what most people wanted). This brings with it the ability to clean up very well, of course.

    -The JP-50's voicing 4 is somewhere inbetween the Lead Overdrive and Modern High Gain preamps in terms of gain/aggression. I felt it was a bit too "inbetween"--some wanted it to clean up better and never used the gain past 1:00, some wanted even more gain and aggression. The new designs accomplish those things.

    I'm glad you like the MV of the JP-50. :) Seems most people don't believe me when I say they won't need an attenuator with the amps. It's nice to hear people appreciating how that works. The Dual Channel is just as good of course.
     
  10. garyrogue

    garyrogue Gold Supporting Member

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    Yes that was Stu's amp, I got it from him.
    Gary
     
  11. 57special

    57special Silver Supporting Member

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    so i've had the amp a couple of days, and have been a/b'ing like crazy. Stu, you're right on in your comments about the JP50/DC. The JP 50 is more Hiwatt, the DC more Marshall, though they are similiar sounding , feature's aside. The JP50 tends towards a glassier , chimier sound (when it differs at all from the DC) whereas the DC seems to growl more . There are lots of highs, but they tend to be more balanced with the mids than the JP50. You could almost say the JP 50 is a HB amp, the DC a strat amp, though either can be tweaked to sound good with the other (does that make any sense?).
    Funny, but the DC has some resemblance to a Wizard Metal , which is the best sounding Wiz I've played. The DC isn't as aggressive, though it gets pretty damn heavy, and isn't as grainy as the Wizard. I think hardcore types would still prefer a Wizard Metal, though they would only slightly sneer (just because they like to sneer) at the Peters DC. The Peters would be appreciated more by classic rock guys, i think. Keep in mind i haven't played the Peters Modern High Gain , which must be pretty damn aggressive if it's more aggressive than the boosted Overdrive lead channel.

    The Classic Lead channel by itself has lots of gain for me... much more than say, a maxed out Aiken Tomcat. As a matter of fact I mentioned to James that i would be happy with an amp with only a the single Classic lead channel with a footswitchable boost, and had he ever thought of building a single channel version of a Classic Lead amp.
    No word on who Mr. Peters is hiring to do the "hit' , perhaps he made some interesting friends from New Jersey at the NYCTF.
    The classic channel can go from clean to heavy, depending on where the boost switch is set. There are clean sounds available when turning down from the guitar at all but the highest gain settings.
    Has anyone out there received their DC with a clean preamp? I'm all ears.
    Any comments on tubes you're running in your DC's?
     
  12. JamesPeters

    JamesPeters Member

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    The only amp with a Clean channel so far is the one in front of me, actually. :) Stu is one of three people getting an amp with a Clean channel this month though so I'm sure you'll get to hear his comments soon...
     
  13. lespaul97

    lespaul97 Member

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    Glad to see some comments about the DC amp. I have been wanting one for some time now. I asked James if it could get into the realm of Sabbath and Metallica and he said the classic overdrive and modern high gain would get me there.
    I was going to wait until Christmas to order one but with this thread going on Santa Claus my be coming earlier this year. :D

    Michael
     
  14. trisonic

    trisonic Member

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    Well, you can't go wrong with James' stuff.
    Very honest in his opinions.

    Best, Pete.
     
  15. JamesPeters

    JamesPeters Member

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    Thanks very much, Pete! I try to be honest. It's not always easy. :)


    Hi Michael,

    I hope you got my last reply too. I was getting some "server timeout" messages but it looked like it went through in the end. (The last email I sent was on August 3--so if you didn't receive a reply to your August 2 email, I'll resend it.)
     
  16. lespaul97

    lespaul97 Member

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    Got it Satuarday James and thanks for your help. I will be giving you a call in the very near future.

    Michael
     
  17. 57special

    57special Silver Supporting Member

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    starting to get the COD dialed in to my taste... Stuck in different tubes(not high end, though i tried some of those) to get more of a jangly , scooped clean sound like the JP50. I'm starting to get more comfortable with the idea of selling the JP50, as the tube tweaks are allowing me to clone most of the sounds on the JP, plus some new ones, plus the convenience factor. Again, the COD has more than enough gain for me in the highest boosted postion. I'm very curious as to the Clean preamp, and hope you will find time to report on your new amp when it arrives, Stu.
     
  18. stu42

    stu42 Member

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    Hey 57special....I'd say you've made some interesting and insightful comments about both the JP-50 and the DC - in particular, about the DC having more growl in some settings vs the JP-50 being more glassy and chimy. To me, the Lead Overdrive preamp on the DC sounds very similar to the JP-50 voicing 3 but with the ability to have considerably higher gain/distortion whereas voicing 4 on the JP-50 is a touch more glassy sounding.

    I also agree that, on the JP-50, with the Output Drive on 4 the amp is more dynamic and punchy than it is on the lower settings. Whether this is better or not kind of depends on what you're going for though. One thing I found interesting to do sometimes was to turn the output drive to 1 and turn up the gain higher (to compensate for the loss of gain you get by turning the output drive down). I found that, as you suggested, the amp is less dynamic sounding like that but I found it useful for certain things. Like, for instance, it's good when using voicing 4 and you want a tighter response for quick chord work with lots of distortion. I'm not a real metal guy but when I want to kind of imitate that kind of thing I found that to be useful. Normally, I would have the output drive higher for more "bloom" in the attack but sometimes having that tighter response you get with the output drive on lower settings was useful. Turning down the output drive definitely has a different effect compared to turning the gain knob down.

    I don't know if you've tried this but I really liked voicing 3 on the JP-50 with the gain turned to about 10: 00 - 12:00 o'clock or thereabouts. I found it excellent for bluesy stuff - better than using, say, voicing 2 with the gain turned higher. Voicing 2 doesn't have the same kind of grit or response for the bluesy stuff as it still has more of the Hiwatt kind of vibe compared to voicing 3 which is more Marshally.

    Also, for real glassy, spanky, "indie" type of low-gain tones, try voicing 4 with the gain on about 9:00 o'clock. I thought that was really cool - also, try messing with the output drive to alter the effect. Although voicing 4 is meant for very high-gain applications, the extra gain stages it has gives the amp a ton of overtones when you turn the gain down to more moderate levels. Again, it's quite different than using, say, voicing 3 with the gain set higher. I wished I had a Rickenbacker to use with that setting. :cool:

    On voicing 1 or 2, whenever I wanted a really nice glassy clean tone I'd always crank the damping and presence. You mentioned you liked to scoop the mids but you didn't mention the Damping control at all so I thought I'd throw that in. I'm sure you know this but I thought I'd mention as well that you can pull the Damping knob out and it will switch it to a "Resonance" control which is a great feature (also found on the DC).

    Anyway...yeah, I can't wait to get my DC. I'll report back on the clean preamp as well.
     
  19. 57special

    57special Silver Supporting Member

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    Stu, have been playing the JP50 again... no way i'm selling this amp! Yes, it can get bright, but that hollow, chimey, ringing sound that it gets is worth it, plus i use the tone controls on my guitar a lot anyway. My 335 has never sounded so good as throught this amp.
    It's taken me a month or so to start to figure out the controls on the JP50 (and i'm probably still not done), and i'm getting less "option anxiety".
    And yes, i crank the Damping/resonance control to scoop the mids.
    The DC is COD is less bright than the JP50, though it's certainly capable of cranking out the treble. Perhaps it's just that you can never completely get rid of the mids, sorta like an AC30 or something, whereas the JP50 allows one to do that. Again, most people wouldn't like the settings i use, so i can understand why the DC is the way it is.
    I've been able to get low gain 'tweedy' sounds out of both amps, which is nice, cause most channel switchers i've played either do "clean" or 'dirty', but not in between. I'll be interested to see if the DC's clean preamp also dirties up a bit.
     

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