Phil Jamison on Ceriatone...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by bmorelli, Oct 14, 2008.

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  1. bmorelli

    bmorelli Member

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  2. RMcFarland

    RMcFarland Supporting Member

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    I have no horse in this race, but it is funny to hear Phil rip on the quality of the Ceriatone amps. Have you ever looked inside a Matchless? SCARY!
     
  3. Sparky6string

    Sparky6string Member

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    He makes good points and doesn't try to hide his disgust but it makes me wonder a couple of things: how close is that Ceriatone copy to the Matchless DC-30, and how close is the Matchless DC-30 to a Vox AC30? Are the differences close enough that there is something of a double standard here? Just wondering, I don't know.
     
  4. Alpedra

    Alpedra Member

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    Did you really expect hearing him praise Ceriatone, when they build copies of their amps? C´mon..

    ;)

    Edit: Just for the record, I don´t own any CTone Matchless clone or any Matchless...
     
  5. hamfist

    hamfist Member

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    Now he is one bitter man. His comments on Ceriatone build quality show that he has probably never looked inside one.

    I can't believe Ceriatone's activity makes a tiny shred of difference to his business.
    Anyone who wants a Matchless, and can afford one will get one.
    For the rest of us peasants, the nearest we'll get to owning a Matchless is probably a Ceriatone, which will be a good amp. It still will not have 100% of the MOJO of the real thing but it'll get very close.
    So I do not believe that Ceriatone is stealing high end boutique customers, but merely tapping into a lower budget market, which should not affect the higher end.

    To be honest, I would be tempted to consider it as flattery if Ceriatone copied one of my amps.
     
  6. Plan9FOS

    Plan9FOS Member

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    You make amps for a living?
     
  7. cram

    cram Member

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    Ceriatone owner here... a marshall clone.
    I also own a marshall.
    If I liked or were inspired by a matchless amp, perhaps I'd get that amp.

    I understand his message, but he'd do well to drop the negativity and cite the positive things his company offers over ceriatone. Things like matchless amps having that established sound that is so good it even sprouts cloning the model from other makers. Or that yes, they do service their amps and guarantee a portion of the amp's function which is an expensive prospect for an amp built far away..
    He mentions this point, but man; it seems to me this guy is not going to be hired to facilitate a marketing role anywhere.
     
  8. fullerplast

    fullerplast Senior Member

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    Bingo. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

    Love the line "when their amps break down and catch on fire, they'll know why Matchless cost more". "Wherever they make them....Malaysia, Indonesia, it's basically stealing." Does he not notice all the other clones being built in the US? Pretty funny stuff, and I don't think he has ever even seen the inside of a Ceriatone based on his comments. Probably hasn't heard one either.
     
  9. 909one

    909one Member

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    I have a Ceriatone Bandmaster clone.
    Its a different story with a Fender clone I think.
    The amp isn't made anymore, and there are a million kits out there for these amps.
    I gotta say, the amp sounds good, but its noisey at low volumes, and the OT already blew. I replaced with a Mercury Magnetics and it sounds alot better now. Nik from Ceriatone has great customer service though. He's always answered my emails right away. You can't say that for many other amp builders. You have to know what you are paying for though. For the $, its a great amp. I built my own cabinet. Put Weber speakers in there. Except for a little nosie at low volumes, the thing sounds awesome.

    As far as copying goes. Its the same as knockoff purses or ipods... as long as you know what you are getting, I think its fair. Ceriatone is not at all trying to dupe the buyer into thinking they are getting something else.
    They are definitely not using the same parts as a Matchless for sure. The reason they are so cheap is that they have found Asian alternatives that are close.
     
  10. bilbal

    bilbal Member

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    Matchless amps kick a$$.
     
  11. sickboy79

    sickboy79 Member

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    Great link. I thought it was an informative interview (3 parter).
     
  12. GrooveMerchant

    GrooveMerchant Member

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    It's the same thing as Coke or Pepsi vs the no-name supermarket brand. The no-name stuff is like half the price. It tastes alright. Does it taste as good as the original? I don't think so, but it's a decision of the best bang for your buck. It's called value.

    Now if the Coke/Pepsi were only 20-30 cents more, I'll bet most people who buy the cheapo stuff would switch over.
    Same idea with the amps. Matchless sounds great, and probably has better quality parts and better build quality (I don't own either). But is it twice as good as a Ceriatone? That's the decision consumers have to make, and if they are choosing to go with Ceriatone, then Matchless should look at it's pricing scheme, and see if the market is able to support the amps at their current price tag.

    Look at the cell phone companies. They all offer the same services, just slightly different packages, and different coverage areas. So you may be able to find a company with lower rates, but a smaller coverage area. If you never leave your town, then why pay more for national coverage?

    In other words if the cheaper product is meeting your needs, why would you buy the more expensive one, even if it is better?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2008
  13. shallbe

    shallbe Deputy Plankspanker Gold Supporting Member

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    You Ceriatone supporters need to understand a few things.

    Matchless IS NOT a large company. Go to their website and see the company tour. It is a small, family atmosphere operation. I would sincerely bet Nik builds more amps per day and per week than Matchless does.

    Matchless spends time in design. Time and resources are not free, especially in the state of California. They have presented new models each year recently, while all Nik does is blatantly copy. Matchless has to market those models and the brand. All Nik has to do is copy, while labeling the amp a demeaning name (Muchless) after earlier just calling them Lightnings and whatever.

    So, Phil is sticking up for his company. I don't blame him. Say what you want about this link, but he is a class act and a very talented guy. I agree with him that what Ceriatone does is shameless, much like knockoffs of any other desired product (watches, gutiars, shoes, purses, whatever). But people will buy them.

    Matchless amps do indeed rock. They are worth what they charge, and hold their value. Mine has been trouble free for over 2 years of heavy gigging in every enviroment. The sound has been consistently great at each venue. Why would you want anything other than that?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2008
  14. reddgeetarzan

    reddgeetarzan Supporting Member

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    I can't think of one single argument anyone has EVER made to justify the outright stealing of any amplifier design. I know.....I know......there is a big grey area on intellectual property, but it is what it is- they wouldn't call it a CLONE if it wasn't outright theivery........but that's just MY OPINON- nothing more, nothing less.
    One thing I know for certain is you get what you pay for......
     
  15. Guinness Lad

    Guinness Lad Silver Supporting Member

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    Either way you look at it, it's slippery slope. I have a Matchless amp and 2 Vinetto's, so on one side of the fence I bought a copy and on the other the real thing.

    A few copies come to mind:

    Allen, Victoria, Ceriatone, Vinetto, Hamer, etc...While every manufacturer I listed doesn't copy everything they make, they do offer up a few models based on the original idea whatever it was.
     
  16. shallbe

    shallbe Deputy Plankspanker Gold Supporting Member

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    Assumptions at their finest. If you want to know what Phil knows, has heard or what he has seen, you ought to call him.

    I'm sure you would not want anyone making assumptions about you and your livelihood in an open forum.
     
  17. electronpirate

    electronpirate Member

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    He has a point, even if it's not so well formed.

    It IS in essence stealing. If it takes just ONE sale away from Matchless from someone who's wanted one, but couldn't afford it right away, and didn't want to save up, then his point is made.

    And clearly, from the business that Ceriatone is doing, he is taking business away.

    EP
     
  18. TNJ

    TNJ Gold Supporting Member

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    I've been a big Matchless fan since '94.
    I've owned a few of them over the years.
    GREAT PRODUCT from a GREAT COMPANY.
    I can say with all honesty that Matchless is in
    my permanent stable of top notch, must have gear.
    I agree with Steve's assessment of Phil.
    First rate guy, driven and talented amp builder.
    I will own another Matchless down the line.
    Cant say the same thing about Ceriatone.
    I believe in Matchless, and I believe in
    Phil Jamison.

    S>
    j
     
  19. studiodunn

    studiodunn Member

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  20. fullerplast

    fullerplast Senior Member

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    :roll

    His statements make certain things obvious. He didn't even know where Ceriatone was located. In addition, his statements were bordering on slander. Has anyone heard or seen a Ceriatone catch on fire? Really....:jo

    IMHO, someone who basically cloned much of the AC30 design and called it a DC30 does not have a great deal of leverage in the holier than thou department. He has a whole industry to condemn if he chooses to go down that road, starting with Victoria, Kendrick, Bludotone, Two Rock, Fuchs, Richter, Clark, Mission, Weber.....etc. That's just amps, not even getting into guitar clones and intellectual property.
     
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