Plan A failed, so Plan B... Tube preamp + cab sim. Experiences? Tips?

2dor

Member
Messages
64
I've had an eye on the Amp1 for quite a while, but it's quite expensive for me and people really don't know about it makes it hard to move, unfortunately I have to think about this when I buy gear.





I tried buying directly, I'm from Brazil, and sending it to a relative in Canada that's coming for the holidays. My purchase was blocked. They said I was indirectly buing it and they don't allow this because they have a dealer in Brazil. I really wish I could afford buying from the dealer, but paying twice the price when your income is many times lower is easier said than done.



Yeah, not dirty cheap here, but still interesting. I'm getting good results with just a simple IR and bit of reverb, but if the power amp sim turns out to be good that could be a great option.



DI rig that's portable, sounds and feels good to play... And it's affordable. But imagine living in a place where gear costs twice as much in the US and avegerage income is about 5 times less, affordable takes a different meaning. It also needs to cover a lot of ground as far as tone goes.



Had Helix for years. Great for gigging, but at home I wasn't happy with it. Before Helix I had valve amps going into a reactive load and it was a vastly better playing experience. Want that back, or at least close enough to make it more enjoyable.

Haven't really considered the GT1000, no.





Considered the analog ones, but the tube preamp pedal thing made more sense right now. It's this one:

foto3.jpg


Made in Brazil, sounds good, seems to be built well.

@Ejay good tone with the Laney! Is it the Pulse, the small one?
Why not get your relatives in Canada buy directly if they're coming over and just hand them the cash or wire transfer? I mean, yeah some gray area stuff there but really... some of these jacked dealer prices are ridiculous.
 

megatrav

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,527
I'm not sure if this will be very helpful, but I have been going direct for about a year now. I was using a tube preamp into a Nux Solid Studio. It sounded pretty great but I recently switched to a Vox Mystic edge and I really like the cab sim on it. I use that with a few pedals and it definitely delivers.

But if you want to stick to digital, there are so many options besides Fractal. Namely, Line 6 Helix, HX, even POD Go. There's also Hotone, Headrush, Nux, etc. They are all priced much nicer as well and probably a little easier to get.
 
Messages
2,207
I have quite a few preamps and a Torpedo CAB M+

They sound great together. Nice small setup if you want. Combine with one of the single pedal Zoom multi-fx units and it’s a tiny setup that gets versatile sounds.

Here are some pedal builders in Brazil:

  • AMB Pedais - AMBPedais.com
  • AS Company - ASCompany.com.br
  • Beggiato Instrumentos Musicais - Beggiato.com.br
  • BFFX Boutique Pedals - BFFX.com.br
  • Black Bug Acoustic - BlackBug.com.br
  • Darta Effects - DartaEffects.com.br
  • DMT Custom Shop - facebook.com/DMTCustomShop
  • EFX Custom Effects - EFXPedais.com
  • Fuhrmann - Fuhrmann.com.br
  • Guitartech - Guitartech.com.br
  • Hot Stomp Custom Pedals - facebook.com/HSPedais
  • JL Pedais Analógicos - JLPedais.store
  • JoyFX - JoyFX.portfoliobox.net
  • JRMod - JRMod.com.br
  • Landscape Audio Systems - LandscapeAudio.com.br
  • Meteoro Amplifiers - AmplificadoresMeteoro.com.br
  • MG Music - MGMusic.com.br
  • NIG Music - NIGMusic.com.br
  • Onerr - Onerr.com.br
  • Orangotone - Orangotone.blogspot.com
  • Pedais BrTech - facebook.com/BRTech.Oficial
  • Pedais Gritto - PedaisGritto.com
  • Pedais Uchoa - PedaisUchoa.com
  • Pedrone - PedroneShop.com
  • Ray's Pedals - RaysPedals.wordpress.com
  • Star Dust Pedals - StarDustPedals.com
  • Synapse Effects - SynapseEffects.com.br
  • Targino Custom Pedals - TarginoCustomPedals.blogspot.com
  • TMiranda - TMiranda.com
  • Tom Tone FX - TomToneeFX.com.br
  • Top Tone Custom Effects - TopTone.com.br
  • Trefilio Pedais - TrefilioPedais.com.br
  • VTR Effects - VTREffects.com
  • Waldman - Waldman-Music.com
 

Tito83

Member
Messages
3,123
Ok, some of them are lightweight, 10/11 kg,
I'd think about it a bit more if I where you. :)

Do you mean a head? Though you was talking about using a guitar cab.

That could maybe work, but still too big. With the preamp pedal I get basically what the amp + the reactive load would do. Yeah, missing the power amp magic, but I'm pretty happy with the tone right now. Maybe the Nux thing could help with the power amp sim if it's actuall good. I tried the Two Notes power amp sim and didin't like it at all, but the Mercuriall Euphoria can bypass the preamp leaving only the power amp and I really liked it.

Remember: There IS no plan B...

Sorry, couldn't help myself ;)

CaptainAmerica1_zps8c295f96.JPG


I think you'll still want a power amp of some sort right? I didn't think preamp into a cab sim would sound good. Depends on what tones you are after but even going DI the power amp adds a certain character and feel right, or am I totally wrong?

Cab sim / DI wise I would try a palmer pdi. They are older and cheap to buy used. People rave about them.

Boss also released a pedal format IR loader that looked promising.


Or just buy a used fractal from the emporium here.

But it actually does. Yes, the power amp does make a difference, but the preamp by itself sounds cool too. I miss some girth/compression I'd assume from the power amp, it's what the power amp sim on the Mercuriall Euphoria adds, and it's great, but again, it doesn't sound bad at all using only the preamp and IR.

Long ago I tried the palmer stuff, never really enjoyed playing any if the analog cab sims I've tried.

I'll check out the Boss, but it's probably much more expensive than what I can do right now.

If you want a dirt cheap IR loader get the Sonic Cake IR loader. Works perfectly, has a balanced and unbalanced out, did I mention dirt cheap?

Wasn't aware of it! Having the XLR already on the pedal is very useful! Thanks for the suggestion!

Why not get your relatives in Canada buy directly if they're coming over and just hand them the cash or wire transfer? I mean, yeah some gray area stuff there but really... some of these jacked dealer prices are ridiculous.

The very reason they gave to not accept my purchase would fit if my sister in law tried to buy it herself now. After she agreed to bring the pedal, I wasn't really confortable asking for her to use her credit card, so I just let it go.

I'll say that the local Fractal dealer has great prices all things considered. Local import taxes are insane, the dealer has to make money. In the end it ends up costing twice as much as in the US. Not only that, but here we make considerably less for the same amount of work, and our currency took a nose dive in the last couple of years. Wish I could afford it, I just can't.

To ilustrate how crazy it can get, the only PRS Silver Sky I've seen for sale new at a store here was 39k brl, which is about 7k US.

I'm not sure if this will be very helpful, but I have been going direct for about a year now. I was using a tube preamp into a Nux Solid Studio. It sounded pretty great but I recently switched to a Vox Mystic edge and I really like the cab sim on it. I use that with a few pedals and it definitely delivers.

But if you want to stick to digital, there are so many options besides Fractal. Namely, Line 6 Helix, HX, even POD Go. There's also Hotone, Headrush, Nux, etc. They are all priced much nicer as well and probably a little easier to get.

How did you like the power amp sim on the nux? That's what interests me the most about it. The Vox looks cool, but I don't see myself spending that much money in something I'd have a pretty bad time trying to sell it if I don't really dig it.

I don't really. I just find it a lot more practical and got used to it. I've spent two days just playing, very minor tweaking, that to me is a great sign. The tube preamp I have is sounding pretty good, so I guess I'll have become used to pedals again... Crap :crazy :bonk

I have quite a few preamps and a Torpedo CAB M+

They sound great together. Nice small setup if you want. Combine with one of the single pedal Zoom multi-fx units and it’s a tiny setup that gets versatile sounds.

Here are some pedal builders in Brazil:

  • AMB Pedais - AMBPedais.com
  • AS Company - ASCompany.com.br
  • Beggiato Instrumentos Musicais - Beggiato.com.br
  • BFFX Boutique Pedals - BFFX.com.br
  • Black Bug Acoustic - BlackBug.com.br
  • Darta Effects - DartaEffects.com.br
  • DMT Custom Shop - facebook.com/DMTCustomShop
  • EFX Custom Effects - EFXPedais.com
  • Fuhrmann - Fuhrmann.com.br
  • Guitartech - Guitartech.com.br
  • Hot Stomp Custom Pedals - facebook.com/HSPedais
  • JL Pedais Analógicos - JLPedais.store
  • JoyFX - JoyFX.portfoliobox.net
  • JRMod - JRMod.com.br
  • Landscape Audio Systems - LandscapeAudio.com.br
  • Meteoro Amplifiers - AmplificadoresMeteoro.com.br
  • MG Music - MGMusic.com.br
  • NIG Music - NIGMusic.com.br
  • Onerr - Onerr.com.br
  • Orangotone - Orangotone.blogspot.com
  • Pedais BrTech - facebook.com/BRTech.Oficial
  • Pedais Gritto - PedaisGritto.com
  • Pedais Uchoa - PedaisUchoa.com
  • Pedrone - PedroneShop.com
  • Ray's Pedals - RaysPedals.wordpress.com
  • Star Dust Pedals - StarDustPedals.com
  • Synapse Effects - SynapseEffects.com.br
  • Targino Custom Pedals - TarginoCustomPedals.blogspot.com
  • TMiranda - TMiranda.com
  • Tom Tone FX - TomToneeFX.com.br
  • Top Tone Custom Effects - TopTone.com.br
  • Trefilio Pedais - TrefilioPedais.com.br
  • VTR Effects - VTREffects.com
  • Waldman - Waldman-Music.com

How's the power amp sim on the Two Notes? I'll I wasn't really crazy about the one on the Wall Of Sound plugin, I'm assuming it's the same on the Cab M.

Know most of them :) Some good stuff here for sure. Mad Lab, Ed Mod Shop, Deep Trip and Fifty Six Inc are missing there, all make great stuff.
 
Messages
2,207
I like the power amp sim on the CAB M+. I’m usually putting it on the EL34 sim and cranking up the output where it does get some simulated power amp distortion and definitely adds body to the tone. I’ll add some EQ and the enhancer also and get a pretty convincing tone.

I also like the power amp emulation on my Mooer Preamp Live. Of course, the real thing is better than both, but it’s the next best thing for silent recording if you don’t have an attenuator with tap or some reactive load with tap.

I also like amps that reactive load built in or power scaling to 1 watt so I can monitor with power amp cranked up and going into a cab, but have the CAB M+ tap the signal to the speaker cab.
 
Last edited:

hotrats73

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,147
Do you mean a head? Though you was talking about using a guitar cab.

That could maybe work, but still too big. With the preamp pedal I get basically what the amp + the reactive load would do. Yeah, missing the power amp magic, but I'm pretty happy with the tone right now. Maybe the Nux thing could help with the power amp sim if it's actuall good. I tried the Two Notes power amp sim and didin't like it at all, but the Mercuriall Euphoria can bypass the preamp leaving only the power amp and I really liked it.

Yes! I mean head only + a reactive load and and IR loader.
If you already own a modeler/multi fx unit, you only need the reactive load and them simply route everything into the modeler/Fx unit.

Is somenthing I'm thinking about to try myself too: tube head loaded down, helix in 4cm for fxs and IRs, FRFR cab/direct to foh

the Marshall SC20 and SV20 or the Engl Fireball 25 look very promising to me for this application.
 

I R P

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,266
Tube preamp into cab sim works great for me. My "thing" is low-output single-coil pickups and clean-to-gritty tones. I don't play crunchy high-gain stuff — from what I gather, power amp color and distortion are important there. Not so much for clean tones.

I have have tried the Cab M+, Simplifier DLX, and the transformer DI out of a tube amp head and for me these things did not appreciably improve the tone or the variety of tones I'm able to get without them in the chain. Just more expensive stuff to get in the way. YMMV.
 

guitplyr

Member
Messages
81
mate, forget about the nonsense with "power amp" sims or "preamp sims"
Just buy the dirt cheapest IR loader you can find. Maybe the Sonicake loader...All of the ir loaders are exactly the same.
dont buy into the nonsensical hype.
just buy a dirt cheap eq and use that as the tone shaping into the loader. there is literally NO difference with this setup and any of the other expensive setups. dont be made a fool of.
 
Last edited:

skinvoyager

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,433
I've had an eye on the Amp1 for quite a while, but it's quite expensive for me and people really don't know about it makes it hard to move, unfortunately I have to think about this when I buy gear.





I tried buying directly, I'm from Brazil, and sending it to a relative in Canada that's coming for the holidays. My purchase was blocked. They said I was indirectly buing it and they don't allow this because they have a dealer in Brazil. I really wish I could afford buying from the dealer, but paying twice the price when your income is many times lower is easier said than done.



Yeah, not dirty cheap here, but still interesting. I'm getting good results with just a simple IR and bit of reverb, but if the power amp sim turns out to be good that could be a great option.



DI rig that's portable, sounds and feels good to play... And it's affordable. But imagine living in a place where gear costs twice as much in the US and avegerage income is about 5 times less, affordable takes a different meaning. It also needs to cover a lot of ground as far as tone goes.



Had Helix for years. Great for gigging, but at home I wasn't happy with it. Before Helix I had valve amps going into a reactive load and it was a vastly better playing experience. Want that back, or at least close enough to make it more enjoyable.

Haven't really considered the GT1000, no.





Considered the analog ones, but the tube preamp pedal thing made more sense right now. It's this one:

foto3.jpg


Made in Brazil, sounds good, seems to be built well.

@Ejay good tone with the Laney! Is it the Pulse, the small one?
I would seriously consider the Simplifier, especially the DLX. It reacts just like a real amp. Pedals in the front and in the loop sound they way they would with a real amp. And honestly, the analog cab sim destroys any IRs or digital cab sims I've ever heard. If you're dead-set on using your tube preamp, try it in the effects return of the Simplifier. I occasionally do that with my RevivalDrive and it sounds sick. I really believe the analog cab sim is the key. After you get used to it, ALL impulse responses sound thin and artficial by comparison.
 

megatrav

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,527
How did you like the power amp sim on the nux? That's what interests me the most about it. The Vox looks cool, but I don't see myself spending that much money in something I'd have a pretty bad time trying to sell it if I don't really dig it.

I don't really. I just find it a lot more practical and got used to it. I've spent two days just playing, very minor tweaking, that to me is a great sign. The tube preamp I have is sounding pretty good, so I guess I'll have become used to pedals again... Crap :crazy :bonk

The power amp sim was really good and it made a huge difference when using the tube preamp. I didn't care for the el84 setting, but I liked the other 2. The cabs that are loaded in are okay. I have a ton of OwnHammer IRs and preferred using those.

My vote is still to go for a different modeling platform. I understand you've gotten use to the Fractal, but the funny thing is, pretty much all the other modeler interfaces are easier to use and navigate. Granted, you may not have as much control over certain parameters.
 

doninoakland

Member
Messages
324
... I'm from Brazil ...

DSM is in Chile, so consider that. They have the Omnicabsim, which is just the cab sim part of the Simplifier. Also, they're very active here on the forums in case you have any product questions or issues.

The CAB M+ is powerful and can sound very good, but there are too many defective units having a lot of noise - including the one I bought. Testing with separate independent power supplies could not fix it, nor could using a battery-based power supply. It wasn't 60 cycle hum from the AC - the unit picked up EMF if other pedals were closer than one foot away - obviously not usable on a pedalboard.

I'm testing out the DSM Omnicabsim Mini. If I'm not satisfied with that, I'll try the Neunaber Iconoclast and/or the Mooer Radar. There are lots of other good options too. I'm not willing to waste my time shipping the CAB M+ back and forth to France - they need to make their products more reliable.
 

C-4

Member
Messages
15,034
Amp1 Iridium and Mercury are both so good as portable amps for rock and metal I don't miss my other gear and using a couple pedals for FX is fun and tactile.

Still have and love my FM3, and for its purpose it is untouchable but if you just want a great, loud, small, feels good multi-channel amp (with an opinion on what good is, not 100 amp templates) nothing has come close to the Amp1 for me. It was the first game changer for me on the amp side since the original Fractal Standard forever ago.

I have failed at every turn to get a digital system to work in a live situation for me. I cannot get the feel of a valve amp or the tone I desire.

I had Marshalls, but my age catching up with me caused me to seek other avenues. Enter the Amp1 ME and it's Remote 1. I get all the feel and tone of my Marshalls, and with a Pedal Train One board with a volume, wah, and tuner going to the Amp1's input, and a Line 6 HXFX to the loop, I have everything I need.

I would still like to try a Fractal FM9, but I have no understanding of how to just get maybe 5 basic good sounding setups from it, so I am still in the considering phase until next year sometime when I have the money for one, to make up my mind.
 

Tito83

Member
Messages
3,123
Had a couple of gigs this weekend to try things out.

Used iPad with Overloud both times, had the valve preamp out. Turned off the amp and had IR's on Overloud with the preamp. Honestly, playing live, I didn't feel it was worth it. Keep in mind I didn't used my monitor or anything, used the ones at the venues, which most likely weren't the greatest. Maybe with better monitors.

Testing at home it was no contest, the preamp definitely gives a better feel. Using Mercuriall I would turn just the preamp off and I could not get it to feel the same. I really enjoy Mercuriall, use it all the time, I quite enjoy playing through the Euphoria, but replacing the preamp with a valve one it was a real improvement IME.

In a more controlled scenario the valve preamp was better, so maybe I'll take my small mixer and IEM's to the next gig. So far so good, the valve preamp bet paid off I think.

Now I'm thinking about the cab/power amp portion. I don't think I'm ready to give up on the power amp sim, because I think it makes a difference - but I'd also be ok with the just IR... But I want to keep looking. I found the Engl Cab Loader locally, but it's a tad more expensive than I'd be comfortable with right now.

The DSM is on the expensive side for me. Can't really try it, but have to say I'm not crazy about it being a fully analog cab sim. Only because I haven't had much look with Palmer and ADA analog cab sims, thought IR's were much better. But that's it, maybe (and probably) this is is much better. But I'm ok with IR's, they worked for me when using real, so I'm not looking to change that particular part of my signal chain right now.
 

JiveTurkey

Trumpets and Tants
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
24,852
I would never recommend this under traditional circumstances. But how about a used Amplifire Box to pair with your preamp? Power amp only sim (iirc), IR loading, some basic effects.
 




Trending Topics

Top Bottom