Played through the "real thing" quite a bit over the weekend.

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by JiveTurkey, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. ejecta

    ejecta Member

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    Yes.... yes it is. Hmmmmm.
     
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  2. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Trumpets and Tants Silver Supporting Member

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    To say the IRT Studio I have been playing through the past few days would benefit from some 6l6s is, like; the greatest amplification and tone enhancing understatement of this thread. My god :barf
     
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  3. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Trumpets and Tants Silver Supporting Member

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    I will say it looks much better than the last "metal"-oriented offering they had :anon
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. ejecta

    ejecta Member

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    I really liked the Prosoinc I had back in the day but the loud click when switching channels was a huge bummer. If this fixed that and sounds very similar I may be snagging on of those.
     
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  5. vangrieg

    vangrieg Member

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    EL84-based amps are a scam and should be illegal, plain and simple.
     
  6. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Trumpets and Tants Silver Supporting Member

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    :rollI'm sure they are perfectly matched in certain types of amps/circuits. But modern metal is not that perfect match :mad:
     
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  7. JaiRamana

    JaiRamana Member

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    Your approach makes good sense to me (though I wouldn't think you'd use speaker sims in doing it that way right?).

    A speaker sim is nice and very handy for DI recording, but it's really not a speaker sim so much as a simulation of a mic'ed speaker (there's a difference real world of course).

    The speaker in a "real" set up is definitely a highly influential filter for the tone and has a huge effect on it. But the mic capturing that (and its placement) is another very influential filter on the sound and one that you don't really get real world except in recording/mic'ing to the House/PA, but not standing in front of the rig at the gig. This is part of why earlier in this thread I commented that it's in essence (to my ear) sounding like a recording of a recording when you're done with the simulations. Not in the sense of a copy of a copy but you are playing something that was sampled in the way you would record a cabinet, capturing the recorded sound (mic "filter" + placement "filter"), and then rebroadcasting it through whatever means you use to amplify it. "Filter" here = something that shapes the frequencies that come through it.

    Little as it's talked about there's still coloring from most speakers anyone would use for PA speakers, etc. I know studio monitors try to be neutral as they can but there's really no such thing as a 100% neutral speaker. The speaker is always a filter of sorts, it's a matter of degree.

    [If I were to help a bandmate set up their digital amp, I'd suggest they use a tube power amp (like a Mesa 20/20 or 50/50 or the return on a good tube amp) and go through a real cabinet. (Of course if you're going to do all that, probably may as well just go ahead and get a tube amp to begin with, but it would give you the flexibility you want/with effects, in a great sounding, more dynamic feeling and sounding package is my point).]

    Although for me it's the latency that kills it most of all as far as feel. That's baked into the cake with a digital set up unfortunately. The latency on my effects drives me crazy as it is. Thank god for wet/dry which makes the issue moot to me. Although in my set up if I use the H9 in front of the amp, I get the latency and it bugs me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 5:23 PM
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  8. JaiRamana

    JaiRamana Member

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    LOL. I tend to agree with this to a degree, but there are some pretty great sounding ones on the market today, but I think they fall down most at high gain. They can pull off bluesy break up pretty good and cleans can be pretty nice with EL84s. But I'm an EL34 guy all the way.
     
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  9. metropolis_4

    metropolis_4 Member

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    That's it, you're officially dead to me!

    ;):D
     
  10. vangrieg

    vangrieg Member

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    That’s a first...
     
  11. metropolis_4

    metropolis_4 Member

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    At least pretend you care, you're gonna hurt my feelings
     
  12. vangrieg

    vangrieg Member

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    I’m in utter distress, don’t have enough composure to pretend... :’(
     
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  13. JaiRamana

    JaiRamana Member

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    Particularly with 20W amps. My 50W Friedman doesn't need a load box to play very quiet and still sound very good.
     
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  14. vangrieg

    vangrieg Member

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    I played a few of these a while ago, size and weight was so tempting... My last one was an ENGL Ironball. Kinda worked, but drove me in the end to buy a humongous ENGL E850/100 poweramp. Now, that beast was killing it - pure unadulterated evil when cranked. :D Even though power stages aren't supposed to matter that much with high gain, you're supposed to get sound from the preamp, yada yada. To me, tube amps are more about making your hair stand than about sound per se.
     
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  15. JaiRamana

    JaiRamana Member

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    Again I tend to agree, but there are some at least partial exceptions to that rule (minus maybe the true high-gain side of things):

    Start at about 1:00:



    That sounds pretty good to me (of course have to give Andre some credit for that) but wouldn't mind having one as a student amp or bedroom amp...
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 5:58 PM
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  16. JaiRamana

    JaiRamana Member

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    I came within an inch of buying an Atma, but I'm glad i went the direction I did instead. I'd still love to have one for certain situations (like when I do a trip overseas). I don't think it's a great high gain option, and even the Pink Taco by Friedman is not my first choice for high gain either. But to me they sound pretty good in the samples for almost any other style and I think Bogner and Friedman get you as close to good high gain with EL84s as you can get. But it's a very nasal sounding tube on its own. It takes a master amp builder to really get them sounding great and even then, I still think they're limited.

    I still may pick up a used Atma one day or a Pink Taco for the light weight/size advantage and the novelty of it. As far as EL84 amps go, the Atma is very versatile and I like that in an amp for sure. I have not played through either yet, though I'd love to.

    My old 20/20 I believe is EL84 based and while that's just a power amp for neutral amplification, I still swear it was louder on one side than most 50W tube amps (20/20 is Class A wired). But it did still give you kind of a nasaly overtone even so. I still wish I never sold it!

    But when it came time to sell a testicle and fork out for a good tube amp I'm glad i went EL34 based. It really can do it all and do it all very well.
     
  17. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Trumpets and Tants Silver Supporting Member

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    I agree 100%. I'm all about preamp gain and amps that focus on that but you can absolutely tell when you are lacking that big bottle punch. Even at lower volumes.
     
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  18. ejecta

    ejecta Member

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    Not typically a el84 fan myself. The only amps with those tubes I liked was the Boogie Subway Rocket series. Those were nice sounding little amps.

    ^ that Bogner looks very interesting. With him voicing his amps typically thicker in the lower mids it may rectify what I don’t like about 84’s
     
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  19. JaiRamana

    JaiRamana Member

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    Atma From 9:00 to end:

     

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