Playing a flatted 5th note over a major scale?

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by chrisle, Feb 22, 2008.

  1. chrisle

    chrisle Member

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    I enjoy using the flatted 5th note over a minor scale but am having difficulty using it over a major scale.
    Any suggestions?

    :munch
     
  2. theohartman

    theohartman Member

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    try hearing it as the #4 and see if that helps.
     
  3. vhollund

    vhollund Member

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    Try this "scale"
    M7 1 M3 #4
     
  4. dewey decibel

    dewey decibel Supporting Member

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    Ummmmm, just curious why you want to use a b5 over a major chord?
     
  5. vhollund

    vhollund Member

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    Hey if you are using the blues scale you need to play it 3 half steps down in major (from minor)
     
  6. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    Well, it's more common to express it as a #4, which makes it Lydian mode.

    Listen to the intro to Steely Dan's "Aja," and you'll get an excellent example of how and why you might want to do that. The guitar lines in the intro are based on Lydian mode, and they are very melodic, at least to my ears.
     
  7. dewey decibel

    dewey decibel Supporting Member

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    I'm hip to the lydian sound, I'm asking the OP specifically to see what he's trying to accomplish.
     
  8. KRosser

    KRosser Member

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    With all due respect, it seems a little backwards to me to try to force a technical matter that you can't get into the sound of, rather than learning the technical stuff behind the sounds you are attracted to.

    Or, am I misunderstanding the question?
     
  9. sausagefingers

    sausagefingers Supporting Member

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    I think its great as a passing tone...on the way to nat4 or nat5. There's tension when you hang on it but it naturally resolves up to the 5 (or down to 4). You can think of it as a chromatic unless you want that tension.
     
  10. Free

    Free Member

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    You shouldn't have much of a problem at all - just be careful how you voice lead both harmonicly and melodicly. Yet, if you leave out the 4th it should sound more at home to you though and have a more pure character - then it will be pure Lydian. The Lydian mode has a really cool sound.
     
  11. Clifford-D

    Clifford-D Member

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    I don't know if this helps but that Lydian sound on the I chord shows the
    effectiveness.

    C major scale in 4ths (with the #11 on the I chord)
    |----------------7--8--10--12-|-|
    |---5--6--8--10--6--8--10--12-|-|
    |---4--5--7--9---5--7--9---11-|-|
    |---4--5--7--9---5--7--9---10-|-|
    |---3--5--7--8----------------|-|
    |-----------------------------|-|

    C major scale in 4ths (with natural 11th)
    - the 11th just doesn't sit very good
    do you agree?? I'm betting on "yes".

    C major scale
    |----------------7--8--10--12-|-|
    |---5--6--8--10--6--8--10--12-|-|
    |---4--5--7--9---5--7--9---10-|-|
    |---3--5--7--9---5--7--9---10-|-|
    |---3--5--7--8----------------|-|
    |-----------------------------|-|

    So there is value in the Lydian sound over the I chord.

    You don't have to think of it as just a passing tone
    treat it more like a chord tone, on the beat.
    Make it sing. It's a very cool sound.

    Here I'm playing it on the strong beat as well as the weak beat..

    Cmaj7#11 or just Cmaj7
    |-------------------|-------3-2-5---3-|-2-|
    |---------------3---|---3-5-------5---|-3-|
    |-------2-----2---4-|-5---------------|-4-|
    |-----2---4-5-------|-----------------|-2-|
    |---3---------------|-----------------|-3-|
    |-------------------|-----------------|---|

    Never looses its sence of being in C




     
  12. Lucidology

    Lucidology Member

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  13. chrisle

    chrisle Member

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    Just wanted to say thanks for the input. I'll have to chew on this for a while!
     
  14. jads57

    jads57 Supporting Member

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    Tritone, Root,then flat 5. Think Puple Haze by Jimmy Hendrix he played them both and then inverted them.
     

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