Please help with recorded guitar tone.

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by msh1283, Mar 24, 2008.

  1. msh1283

    msh1283 Member

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    Alright, my recorded tone sounds like crap. Nothing at all like what I'm hearing in the room. The rig is Custom Telecaster w/ SD stacked humbucker -> Zvex Box of Rock -> Orange Rocker 30 (Natural Channel) -> SM57 -> M Audio Mobile Pre -> Cubase

    http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6394631

    This is with the SM57 about an inch and a half away from the grill and 3 inches left of the dust cap. I've tried it all over the place and this is the best result I've been able to get. It still doesn't really sound anything like what I'm hearing in the room. Cleans sound decent, I guess, but once the distortion kicks in it's just terrible. Loose, thin, buzzy, blah.

    The gain is not up very high at all...maybe 12:00. All parts here are doubletracked. It's an Orange Rocker 30 with a Zvex Box of Rock in front of it. Both are pretty notorious for huge bass response. There's definitely a ton of bass, it's just not coming through.

    My problem isn't that it doesn't as good as it possibly could, it's just that it doesn't sound a thing like what's in the room. I know I could make it sound better with another mic farther back, different pre-amp, etc, but there's no reason at all that I shouldn't be able to get a reasonably good sound out of this set up.

    Any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. Platypus

    Platypus not in rivers, but in drops Supporting Member

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    The quality of your mic pre can make a big difference.. also keep in mind that you might have to adjust your amp's EQ when you record versus what you use for normal practice.

    I like to put my SM57 slightly off axis pointing down and to the left right up against the grill about an inch or two away from the dustcap. Mic placement makes such a huge difference that it's unreal.

    Also, is this double tracked? I always double track and delay the second track just a tad then pan them hard left and hard right. This gives you more depth to your sound. What I typically do is record all my rhythm with my bridge pickup on full bore... then I record a 3rd track and mix it center on just the neck pickup. It gives a full/warm sound while preserving the sharp attack.
     
  3. Greggy

    Greggy Member

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    By double tracked do you mean 2 different performances with one mic on each, or 1 performance with 2 mics on the cab? If the latter, phase incoherence between the 2 mics could diminish the track, if so try 1 mic and record multiple performances (that's my preference on gainier guitars).

    Anyway, to my ears your tone isn't that far off. The cleans sound good, the dirt is not that bad. I almost always angle a 57 about 30 degrees pointing halfway up the cone. Especially when recording with the gain up. The mic capsule is in front of the dust cap, but it is angled 30-45 degrees which seems to roll of the fizz.
     
  4. rdobson

    rdobson Member

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    I had the same prob man...when i first started using my home studio my tone would go from this monsterous thick sound to a midrangy thin tone...I started fixing the problem by putting an sm-57 about 3 inches away straight on one of the speakers then I added another mic (a nady I think?) about 7 or 8 inches away at about a 45 degree angle on another speaker.I adjusted the balence on my interface so they were comming out the same volume.Make sure your input gain is all the way down and just bump it up till you get a signal,then use your master volume to control the overall volume(duh!! LOL).Alot of my buddies still think its cool to have input gain to get an easy signal but there tone sounds ****** and thin. After you track your guitars add some EQ boost at around 110hz and 250 hz (at least thats what i do) you may want to add alittle high boost to but not much or you will be in screech land again.You can even add another mic(if you have the inputs) about a foot and a half away from the cab to get a room sound that will be boomy and it should be what you are hearing through your ears.The trick is just mixing them all together on your interface or mixing board.

    One my website which is linked to below. in my pics section I have some pics of my cab with the mics on it.It may give you an idea....listen to the tracks on my homepage and you can tell the difference in the tones from the top of the list to the bottom where I had no clue what the hell I was doing

    I hope this helped me...It sure saved my ass
     
  5. Unburst

    Unburst Member

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    A close 57 is never going to sound like what you ears are hearing 5 ft back from the amp.

    Put your ear right where the 57 is, does it sound more like it now?

    The trick is good mic placement (I would move the 57 closer and further in towards the dust cap, like just past the edge of it) then tweak the amp so your recorded tone sounds good, forget what it sounds like in the room, that's not important.

    General rule of thumb, dial in less treble and gain than you would use normally.

    Also ime, it's hard to record a distortion pedal without getting fizz, try using the amp's gain.
     
  6. enharmonic

    enharmonic Old Growth Gold Supporting Member

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    Can you show us a pic of the mic placement...and more importantly...the room?

    Room shouldn't factor in so much on a blazing rock and roll guitar track, but it might help to see how you're set up. :)

    Also...guitar is a midrange instrument. Those bass frequencies that sound good in the room might be giving you problems in the track.
     
  7. Kapo_Polenton

    Kapo_Polenton Member

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    I'm going to watch this thread.. recording even with a bit of overdrive to boost my plexi, i still get fizz. I am wondering now if i am turning the preamp gain up too much on my firepod however i also think that for gain, it might be best to use a cleaner speaker that is rated higher.
     
  8. Carl_Tone

    Carl_Tone Member

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    If you like the tone on the clips linked in my footer....then you you will do better with a couple cheap condenser mikes instead of the 57.


    Behringer B-1 up close & AT 2020 back 3 ft. (All into a Mackie 1202 before the computer.)


    My 57 is gathering dust at the moment but I might try it in tandem with the un-tried tube powered Nady I got recently.



    Greg Watts
     
  9. KCWM

    KCWM Member

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    I ran into the same problem. Because I play in an apartment, I have to use the input gain on my mic pre-amp at about 75% to get to a decent volume. I guess I should try going with less input volume and boosting the volume using the built in editor to get it up where I need it.

    I do get a better sound after playing with the mic placement. But I moved my music corner around and now I have refigure out where the best placement is.
     
  10. rob2001

    rob2001 Member

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    For what it's worth, my settings for live vs. recording are very different. Much less gain for sure. I'd also say the 57, while it is a standard, can greatly benifit from a preamp.
     
  11. splatter

    splatter Supporting Member

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    Heres something to try . Turn the amp up to where you can here the hiss . Mic the amp . Listen to the hiss in the room . Then listen to the hiss through the headphones . Move the mic around till the hiss in the head phones sounds like the hiss in the room .
    Also pre amd plays a big part . I never used an m audio mobile pre but I think they are suppose to be pretty good aren't they ?
     
  12. chrisgraff

    chrisgraff Member

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    As I hear it, your problem is mostly the room. Sounds like a typical 10x10x10 bedroom. A loud source like an amp gets those walls ringing; the sound bounces off the walls and bleeds back into the mic.

    Get the amp off the floor, construct a "tent" with the heaviest blankets you can find, and turn down the volume. Put the 57 smack in the center of the speaker, very close; pivot the mic to either side if it's too bright. That's your treble knob.
     
  13. jdier

    jdier Member

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    Check this out: http://thewombforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10

    The slipperman stuff is right on the money.

    I struggled to get a sound that I wanted and the slipperman stuff gave me hope and direction. I did it all with an SM57, a 4x12 cab, a mesa head and a tubescreamer. It just took a lot of time and experimentation.

    While the mic placement was key, my problems (or mistakes) had more to do with the amp settings.

    The Tube Screamer made more of a difference than I thought. The mesa overdrive sound (which sounded great live) just did not translate all that well for some reason.

    Everyone's gear/room/mic/preference is different, but you will be able to get it. Also remember that the way it sounds solo'ed may not be all that important to the whole mix. I try to work on my eq with the rest of the band in.

    One other suggestion is to hit womb.mixerman.net and post a sample of the raw unprocessed track and see if anyone else can get it to sound how you like it through EQ.
     
  14. jdier

    jdier Member

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  15. hawaii5_o

    hawaii5_o Member

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    The best way to capture the low end is to mic the back of the cab (if it's open back), along with the SM57 in the front.
     

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