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Pollyana vs. Simon Cowell: Why We Can't Critique an Artist Here

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by Shiny McShine, May 17, 2011.

  1. Shiny McShine

    Shiny McShine Member

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    OK, I'm really having a hard time understanding why we can't have a discussion about why we might not like an artist or their work?

    I've gotten a lot of insight when someone points out to me that a particular player is lacking in roots or that they are missing some key point to the style they're in etc.

    Just to show I'm a good sport about it, I'll start with myself...

    I'm a halfway descent player with a good ear and above average musicality but I'm lacking in deep roots (both blues and jazz) and can sound a little Wonderbread at times. I tend to be a little lazy when I practice and can end up missing the point of a tune when I go up in my head too much.

    OK, was that so bad? Hey, I'm working on this stuff to improve but most of the time, I would just sum myself up by saying that "Most of the time, I don't suck and sometimes, I sound pretty good."

    So when the Steve Howe thread went away, I was disappointed.

    RIP
     
  2. Guitar55

    Guitar55 Who was that masked man? Silver Supporting Member

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    The problem is that its get too emotional and personal on both sides of the issue.
    Often, people don't know how to give or take criticism.
     
  3. Ultron

    Ultron Member

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    It's all in the phrasing. You've got to say stuff like "Joe Schlabotnik's playing just doesn't connect with me.....very uninspiring......etc."
     
  4. rob2001

    rob2001 Member

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    I think criticizing is fine as long as it's presented as your opinion and backed up with some solid reasoning.
     
  5. Phalanx200bc

    Phalanx200bc Member

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    Anything showing a lack of couth...whether real/ implied/suggested/imagined will be taken as trolling or flaming.

    Especially true more for some topics and demographics than others...

    I guess if you feel strongly enough about a certain subject, wait a few posts and get know your audience before submitting.

    A guess based on the amount of post's you have here shouild tell me you already know this though...

    Now if I could only follow my own advice.....:bonk
     
  6. scottl

    scottl Member

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    I personally enjoy a good "discussion", as long as it is backed with rational replies.

    If someone posts a love this artist thread, and I don't care for the artist, I generally stay away.

    Occasionally, when I see stuff like "the best", better than "xyz", "xyz" can play jazz when they are not at all a jazz guy, etc.... And I thoroughly disagree, my inner 900 pound gorilla wins out and I post. I'm working on that.
     
  7. Yngtchie Blacksteen

    Yngtchie Blacksteen Member

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    Threads getting deleted like that is by far the worst thing about The Gear Page.
     
  8. Bullhonky Deluxe

    Bullhonky Deluxe Supporting Member

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    :agree
     
  9. angus99

    angus99 Member

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    :mob I think you need to lay off this McShine guy until you can play at least as good as he can. Oh, wait . . .
     
  10. Cody

    Cody Well, look who’s undead! Silver Supporting Member

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    I'm pretty sure there has never been a TGP rule prohibiting self-critique.

    :bonk
     
  11. jtm622

    jtm622 Member

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    Actually, I think that it's OK to criticize an artist - as long as you don't make a sporting event out of it...

    :)
     
  12. Crowder

    Crowder Dang Twangler Silver Supporting Member

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    Opinions <> solid reasoning. In fact they are almost opposite concepts.

    No matter who you are, someone loves your playing and someone else thinks you're an overrated hack.

    IMHO it's okay to have a thread discussing an artist, with differing opinions presented. I would prefer it if the board had a thread dedicated to each artist, with the thread title and OP basically stating the artist's name and kicking off the discussion. One thread per artist would be AOK by me.

    I'm even okay with "fanboy" thread titles or OP's if someone wants to share a player that inspires them on some level. OTOH, I don't see much use in a "Joe Blow sucks, right?" type thread. Pointless, really.
     
  13. Bobby D

    Bobby D Member

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    i suck at playing jazz ;)
     
  14. splatt

    splatt david torn / splattercell Gold Supporting Member

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    without some musical context, ie:
    --- a whole buncha yer own work for all of us to actually hear ---
    your self-critique (and, this thread) serves no viable socio-musical purpose.
    does it?
    well, dude.

    dt / spltrcl
     
  15. scottl

    scottl Member

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    It's alright bro, I suck at Bobby D licks!!! :dude (basically I suck at cool rock stuff)

     
  16. antojado

    antojado Member

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    The problem is not critiquing, it when people are just criticizing or bashing an artist. It's ok to dislike someone's music or style. It's also ok to critique yourself, but as someone else said, without samples of your music there's no context and what you say has little or no meaning for anyone but you.
     
  17. rob2001

    rob2001 Member

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    Thats a good point. Solid reasoning really isn't needed for an opinion to matter. I guess i'm saying it's better to state why you have a negative opinion rather than just give the negative opinion,........if you feel the need to post a negative opinion at all.

    Bottom line for me....I try to stay away from harsh comments towards other musicians but i'll admit i'm not always on top of that. I slip when a topic is directly asking for an opinion. I should just stay out of those threads. Still, I think it's crazy to think stating opinions on a public online forum is out of line. As mentioned, the delivery matters.
     
  18. 84superchamp

    84superchamp Silver Supporting Member

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    the demographic is very broad here, people from all types of lives and backgrounds, educated or un.
    some people are well-spoken enough in music to properly critique. others (like me) who are not as familiar with music-speak tend to be more "basic" in their criticism, which comes across as harsh. but there is yet another lower level: people who are tanked up, ticked off and very offensive and they don't care.
     
  19. FeloniousBishop

    FeloniousBishop Member

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    Sorry bro but unless you have clips of yourself deleting threads stylishly then you are in no way entitled to be making that criticism of actual professional unpaid thread deleters who have a well known oeuvre.
     
  20. CyberFerret

    CyberFerret Member

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    Your self-criticism was objective, and thus it is OK in my book. It is the subjective criticisms and opinions that should be taken to task in my opinion.

    For example, saying "I don't like the way 'x' plays too many fast pentatonic runs in the same key" is far better and open to understanding and civil debate than "I think 'x' sucks and is a mediocre blues wannabe".

    The first is an observation with some solid grounding behind it that allows others to think about the context and respond either in support of the artist, or in agreement with you. It also points to the fact that you might have some knowledge, understanding and familiarity with music, and the style in question.

    The second is just rude, inconsiderate and disrespectful, and in my opinion has no place in a forum that is supposed to be for and about musicians & players.
     

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