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Popping pedals..

ultrasun

Member
Messages
238
EDIT does it have tails (ie buffered bypass)?

EDIT 2 does this happen in the minimal configuration (guitar > pedal > amp?)
Very important to check, as sometimes the popping pedal is NOT the one with the DC offset problem.
Thanks !
-the ed2 is true bypass only
-it happens all the time, in any configuration... first loud pop (if I’M right this comes from the fact that the pedal needs more current when engaged for the first time ?), and then quieter pops when using it.
Does that help figuring it out ?
 

lefort_1

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15,070
Thanks !
-the ed2 is true bypass only
-it happens all the time, in any configuration... first loud pop (if I’M right this comes from the fact that the pedal needs more current when engaged for the first time ?), and then quieter pops when using it.
Does that help figuring it out ?
Yes, it does help.
The pedal still could have a DC level on it (as I mentioned earlier)... most likely culprit are those two AC-blocking caps.

OR

It can be that either the guitar or AMP has DC on their output.
Amps have DC-blocking caps as well.,.. they could be leaking. (test: try another amp)
If you have a guitar with active electronics, it can be putting out a DC offset. (test: try another guitar)

Do any OTHER TBP pedals do this? (using the same cords)

As noted earlier in this thread, there is a way for cables to cause pops too, but the active components are a more common cause.
 

ultrasun

Member
Messages
238
Yes, it does help.
The pedal still could have a DC level on it (as I mentioned earlier)... most likely culprit are those two AC-blocking caps.

OR

It can be that either the guitar or AMP has DC on their output.
Amps have DC-blocking caps as well.,.. they could be leaking. (test: try another amp)
If you have a guitar with active electronics, it can be putting out a DC offset. (test: try another guitar)

Do any OTHER TBP pedals do this? (using the same cords)

As noted earlier in this thread, there is a way for cables to cause pops too, but the active components are a more common cause.
Thanks for your help man... I think it does come from the pedal. In all of my arsenal, there’s an od that pops like that, otherwise everything is great.
I’ll check again and come back to you !
 
Messages
489
I have tried every single damn troubleshoot:

Its not the amp, because I have tried various amps, even solid state.

I've tried using just one True Bypass pedal with batteries into my amp.

I've changed between 4 or 5 different guitars

I've changed Room..

I did try different cables

Still... The ONLY pedals that works quietly Are the Buffered ones
 

ultrasun

Member
Messages
238
Yes, it does help.
The pedal still could have a DC level on it (as I mentioned earlier)... most likely culprit are those two AC-blocking caps.

OR

It can be that either the guitar or AMP has DC on their output.
Amps have DC-blocking caps as well.,.. they could be leaking. (test: try another amp)
If you have a guitar with active electronics, it can be putting out a DC offset. (test: try another guitar)

Do any OTHER TBP pedals do this? (using the same cords)

As noted earlier in this thread, there is a way for cables to cause pops too, but the active components are a more common cause.
After emailing my issue to DBA, they told me I could fix the problem by adding a 100k resistor from the input to ground, at the expense of losing a little bit of treble... The echo dream being quite bright, this could work. Has anyone done this already? How much treble are we talking about?
 

sunburster

Member
Messages
288
This happens to several pedals on my board that are TB with those loud-click switches (TS Mini, Loomer Fuzz, Gilamondo phaser, etc). However, none of my Strymon pedals have this problem when they are in true bypass. I have this problem with the Boss DD-500 in true bypass too, but when I switch it to buffered bypass the problem goes away. I gave up and just decided to live with it (tried different amps, cables, etc). I use a really nice isolated power supply (Eventide Powermax). So it must be something with the electricity in my house.
 

lefort_1

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15,070
After emailing my issue to DBA, they told me I could fix the problem by adding a 100k resistor from the input to ground, at the expense of losing a little bit of treble... The echo dream being quite bright, this could work. Has anyone done this already? How much treble are we talking about?
The addition of the resistor is a way to bleed off a low-current dc offset created by another pedal/amp/source in the chain. Unless they are they are of the opinion that their input AC isolation is the source of that dc offset, then it is aimed at covering up a problem somewhere else in your chain.

I refer you back to the link to Jack Deville's general description of the types of problems and solutions for popping issues. Rarely, it is the TB pedal's fault... it is MUCH more common to see a dc-offset coming out of a buffer ("allowable" dc-offset is a standard spec for IC's, leakage current is a spec in transistors... only a leak-free cap keeps you from getting this in all active output pedals, and the high-value resistor can bleed off any amount that is leaked thru those caps.)

Treble : that is going to depend on the capacitance (either from a cap attached to that portion of the circuit AND te capacitance of the cable at that input jack). It WILL vary from pedal-design to pedal-design. You can limit the amount that the stray cable capacitance will add by using a (sigh) really low capacitance cable and keep it really short.... hopefully, this is NOT the "guitar-to-1st pedal" cable, as they tend to be long.


@sunburster : If the DC-offset problem is corrected by any means (pulldown resistor such as suggested by DBA), then the method by which a audible 'pop' from a TB-switch could be converted to an electrical signal by one of the ''standard' means, such as the piezo-electric effect ... this can be caused by a cable which uses polypropylene as either a shield-carrier material or as the main insulator/dielectric. The same material is found in some jack-mounting 'plastic' grommets/washers ( a really bad choice of materials there, but it is cheap, therefore it keeps the materials cost down and the parts maker may use it without letting the designer know about it).
BUT, a loud audible sound is not necessarily translated into an audible, electrical noise... by itself, that doesn't happen. I'd look at your cables first.... check it by shaking a long cable made of the same material, or stepping on it hard/fast... any noise?=you have a noisy cable.
 

strattitude

Member
Messages
1,306
I just got a used Ibanez Mini tube Screamer. Sounded great, but I sold it again right away again due to the loud popping switch.
Also sold a One Control Prussian reverb because of that problem.
I think it has been worst on mini sized pedals...
 
Messages
329
Hopping on this thread in case anyone has any insight here. I have two Paul C Timmy V2 pedals that pop only when engaged (one of them has a more standard “pop” while the other has a more pronounced low-frequency “thump” along w the pop); when I hit the button to bypass them again it doesn’t happen. I’ve tried different cables, different power (9v battery, one spot, CS7 isolated power), but the pops persist even when the Timmy is the only pedal in the chain. I even replaced the switch in the louder “thump” sounding Timmy w a “silent” switch, but it still makes the noise. I tried calling and emailing Paul but no answer or reply.

Any thoughts?
 

lefort_1

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15,070
hey, sorry for going over the SOS in my post #27
I had forgot that the OP had gone through a bunch of 'eliminate the variables' tests.

But I got a reason. I was in a car wreck yesterday.
I'm ok, and it appears the ones who got rear-ended and thrown into my lane are ok. I just hope the teen who slammed into them has a helluva headache today.
They need to pay more attention to the road when driving.

Photos... I'm the green van that had the black Mazda thrown at it by the silver Honda.
I nearly got stopped, straight in my lane... the Mazda impacted me at about 25+ after being smacked in the passenger-rear quarter by the silver Honda. Side forces were so high my right front tire was knocked off the rim, towards mid-line. NO ONEs airbags went off. All the weird angles must have confused the accelerometers, according to the deputy there. Silver Honda was cited for 'follows to close'... I seriously hope they up that charge a bit. How do you followed a stopped car (the Mazda) so close that a 25-35 mph collision occurs and you knock a car across a lane of traffic with its back end 18-24 inches up in the air???

Anyway... here's was my Saturday:



So, yeah, sorry about my repeat.
 

lefort_1

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Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
15,070
Hopping on this thread in case anyone has any insight here. I have two Paul C Timmy V2 pedals that pop only when engaged (one of them has a more standard “pop” while the other has a more pronounced low-frequency “thump” along w the pop); when I hit the button to bypass them again it doesn’t happen. I’ve tried different cables, different power (9v battery, one spot, CS7 isolated power), but the pops persist even when the Timmy is the only pedal in the chain. I even replaced the switch in the louder “thump” sounding Timmy w a “silent” switch, but it still makes the noise. I tried calling and emailing Paul but no answer or reply.

Any thoughts?
A lower frequency 'thump' means the angle of the slope of the DC-offset-change is at less of an angle...
That was a nerd's way of saying, the dc-offset is bled off by the value of the current source or sink... the stringer the source/sink, the sharper the slope and the higher the frequency heard.
Which is a nerd's nerd way of saying the sound you hear depends on the circuit values being used.
- - - Low value resistor = slower-bleed-off = lower frequency.

Uh... still clear as mud?

If it happens with only one pedal AND just the guitar/pedal/amp
then I might suggest plugging a standalone jack with a 1k resistor across it (no cable) into the pedal input,
and then pedal/amp like normal.
Stomp on the switch.
If that doesn't 'whump', then the problem may be in the input cable side or the guitar is pickup up and outputing a DC voltage... does it have active pickups/builtin pre-amp, by any chance?
 
Messages
329
A lower frequency 'thump' means the angle of the slope of the DC-offset-change is at less of an angle...
That was a nerd's way of saying, the dc-offset is bled off by the value of the current source or sink... the stringer the source/sink, the sharper the slope and the higher the frequency heard.
Which is a nerd's nerd way of saying the sound you hear depends on the circuit values being used.
- - - Low value resistor = slower-bleed-off = lower frequency.

Uh... still clear as mud?

If it happens with only one pedal AND just the guitar/pedal/amp
then I might suggest plugging a standalone jack with a 1k resistor across it (no cable) into the pedal input,
and then pedal/amp like normal.
Stomp on the switch.
If that doesn't 'whump', then the problem may be in the input cable side or the guitar is pickup up and outputing a DC voltage... does it have active pickups/builtin pre-amp, by any chance?

That all makes sense, I appreciate your reply. And sorry to hear about your accident! Glad you're ok.

To answer your question, the guitar is either a '68 335 or a parts Telecaster - the thump and pops happen regardless of which instrument is plugged in, and whether or not the guitar volume is up or all the way down. I'll try the jack w 1k resistor and report my results when I can.
 

lefort_1

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That all makes sense, I appreciate your reply. And sorry to hear about your accident! Glad you're ok.

To answer your question, the guitar is either a '68 335 or a parts Telecaster - the thump and pops happen regardless of which instrument is plugged in, and whether or not the guitar volume is up or all the way down. I'll try the jack w 1k resistor and report my results when I can.
With the vol down, you've reduced the input resistance to near 0
It's probably in the output stage or in the amp... maybe the output cable?

Just took care of an emergency patient... makes me feel more human.
Knocked the 'outta body attitude' right out of me.
Thanks.
 

analogmike

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
6,852
>> I have two Paul C Timmy V2 pedals that pop only when engaged (one of them has a more standard “pop” while the other has a more pronounced low-frequency “thump” along w the pop); when I hit the button to bypass them again it doesn’t happen.


I bet it's the LED, try shorting it out and see if the popping goes away (attach both sides together).
 

ultrasun

Member
Messages
238
I refer you back to the link to Jack Deville's general description of the types of problems and solutions for popping issues. Rarely, it is the TB pedal's fault... it is MUCH more common to see a dc-offset coming out of a buffer ("allowable" dc-offset is a standard spec for IC's, leakage current is a spec in transistors... only a leak-free cap keeps you from getting this in all active output pedals, and the high-value resistor can bleed off any amount that is leaked thru those caps.)
Thanks again for the extensive reply!
I'm not sure I understand... Do you mean making sure there's a leak-free cap on all the pedals in the chain?

Otherwise, I tried running the ED2 at 9, 12, and 18v today... It seems like the pop is louder at 18v... This kind of makes sense, but is it helpful in pointing out the issue here?
 

lefort_1

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Thanks again for the extensive reply!
I'm not sure I understand... Do you mean making sure there's a leak-free cap on all the pedals in the chain?

Otherwise, I tried running the ED2 at 9, 12, and 18v today... It seems like the pop is louder at 18v... This kind of makes sense, but is it helpful in pointing out the issue here?
If the pedal was designed with an AC-blocking cap, then it might make sense to check it... it takes a very fine Meter (fast integration time, maybe a peek-value-hold function), or an oscilloscope to do so.

And yes, it makes sense that the noise is louder at 18 volts.
The typical DC-offset is some percentage of the overall V+/V-/GND value, so, the dV will be almost 2x at 18v vs 9v.

I'd be really interested to see if the problem is 'as seen on the AnalogMike Channel'.
Not sure how it's doing it... a negative current spike as the LED rounds the conduction curve?
Maybe the initial burst of photons triggered an electron/hole rebalancing surge to conserve the band-gap's k-vector and ground bounced instantaneously... hate it when that happens... Disturbance in the Force-level stuff, that is.
 

ultrasun

Member
Messages
238
If the pedal was designed with an AC-blocking cap, then it might make sense to check it... it takes a very fine Meter (fast integration time, maybe a peek-value-hold function), or an oscilloscope to do so.

And yes, it makes sense that the noise is louder at 18 volts.
The typical DC-offset is some percentage of the overall V+/V-/GND value, so, the dV will be almost 2x at 18v vs 9v.

I'd be really interested to see if the problem is 'as seen on the AnalogMike Channel'.
Not sure how it's doing it... a negative current spike as the LED rounds the conduction curve?
Maybe the initial burst of photons triggered an electron/hole rebalancing surge to conserve the band-gap's k-vector and ground bounced instantaneously... hate it when that happens... Disturbance in the Force-level stuff, that is.
Hi there! Here's another thing I've noticed, maybe you'll have an idea about what's goin' on:

On my small wet/dry board, here's what happens with mini-tuners:
-Korg pitchblack:
my dry signal sounds better with it (no tonesuck, dynamics are here), but I get a quiet "click" whenever I turn the tuner on and off... No big deal, but it's a bit annoying ...
-TC polytune mini: It is dead silent!... no click whatsoever. But I do have tonesuck...
Any ideas why this is happening? Maybe the TC has a buffer and the Korg doesn't?
 

lefort_1

Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
15,070
Hi there! Here's another thing I've noticed, maybe you'll have an idea about what's goin' on:

On my small wet/dry board, here's what happens with mini-tuners:
-Korg pitchblack:
my dry signal sounds better with it (no tonesuck, dynamics are here), but I get a quiet "click" whenever I turn the tuner on and off... No big deal, but it's a bit annoying ...
-TC polytune mini: It is dead silent!... no click whatsoever. But I do have tonesuck...
Any ideas why this is happening? Maybe the TC has a buffer and the Korg doesn't?
I don't have time to look up the schematics/online-specs today/tomorrow, but
it sounds like your last sentence is on track.
TB gets blamed for OT?HER pedals' problems ALL THE TIME..
Or it could be that the Polytune has a bleeder resistor that is working with cable capacitance to make a bit of a filter, syphoning off yer haunting mids.
 




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