Pre and Post SLX Fuchs Sonic Differences with clips

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Tag, Oct 21, 2005.

  1. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    There are a lot of threads with guys wondering about the different tones of the SLX version of the Fuchs and non SLX, and older Fuchs. While I think some may prefer the pre SLX, for me, I think the SLX model sounds FAR superior. The tone is way smoother, with a lot more presence. They may as well be different amps as far as I am concerned.

    I bought an older Fuchs that uses 60s bandmaster transformers. I made clips of it. Scott Lerner (The SL in SLX)modded my amp to make it an SLX. I made clips of it using the same guitar and basically same settings as well. (Everything close to noon) Same recorder, cab, mic placement and all. I also had a chance to A\B it with his production Fuchs SLX, and while mine has slightly less bass, I prefered mine with the looser transformers by a wide margin. His had more bass as I said, but was far stiffer feeling.

    Here are clips that clearly show the difference between the same amp, in pre or non SLX form, then when SLXed.
    Toip clip is pre SLX, the next two clips are after Scott got his mitts on it. IMO, the SLX has KILLER tones!

    Clips here.... http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=271268
     
  2. bluesmostly

    bluesmostly Member

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    Thanks Tag, that helps, I was just asking about this somewhere as I think I just bought a non SLX 30. The modded version does sound like a different amp in your clips, way more presence. I think I might like the original version better...
     
  3. Tone Loco

    Tone Loco Silver Supporting Member

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    Are you sure? Was it a special order? I never heard Fuchs made amps with 60s bandmaster transformers.
     
  4. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Yes. Buy an old bandmaster and send it to Fuchs. (Or any old amp you like the trannies in I guess) As far as I know, he still does it. Maybe he will chime in, or shoot him an email to be sure.
     
  5. Ayan

    Ayan Member

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    Hey Tag, it sounds to me like you're not using the same pickups on the pre and post clips. The old clip sounds like the neck pickup, or maybe both pickups together. The post sounds more like the bridge pickup or maybe both pickups together in a Gibson-type, but with the neck volume rolled back. I could be off, but that's what comes to mind.

    Gil
     
  6. MikeyG

    MikeyG Supporting Member

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    Gil, agreed .... but Tag said everything is basically the same, so that makes for some pretty significant differences in the amp's tones.

    I hear the modded amps can sound a bit different than the pre-SLX production amps too, so it's not too surprising.
     
  7. scottl

    scottl Member

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    I hate the tone of the pre clip....

    This is not an apples to oranges comparo. I changed some of Tag's tonestack pots and gave him a switchable midcap as well. The settings on the post SLX clips can be fiddled with to get infinitely more variety than the old way. Basically, Tag can get a plethora of kilelr and diverse tones since I gave him several iterations of Dumble stacks in one amp!! Because of pot value and taper changes, noon on the new amp is not close to noon on the old amp. So, the settings where most likely very different. The gain structure is much different too. So, one OD setting the old way has no relation to the new way. The gain could have been set way different as well.

    The post clips sound far superior in every way to me. Not just cause I had a hand in the tuning.

    Maybe Tag can record a few more clips where he changes the stack values to get a bunch of other tones. I played the amp before and after and although the clips show it, in person the amp is killer the way it is now.

    Scott
     
  8. scottl

    scottl Member

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    Clarification here....

    Tag's amp was a Bandmaster mod done in 2001. He bought it used from Guitar Center. This is not really a pre versus post SLX comparison. His amp was neither a stock ODS before or a production SLX after. It is a mod. After, it is a Scott tweaked FrankenSLX with lots of one off stuff.

    Cool comparison none the less ;)
     
  9. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Hey Gil,
    I thought the same thing at first. They are both the bridge pups though, with everything dimed on the guitar. I just did a take with the neck pup on the same backing track as the Pre clip, and I will mix it and post it later for comparison as well. It sounds totally differet yet again.

    You would not know it is the same amp. It also sounds very different than my E.Pro. It is far smoother and brighter. (Thats a tough combination!)

    I used the mid shift on the "in" position, which is fuller and less nasal to me. In the first SLX clip I had the mid boost off, in the second, it was on. I honestly cant remember how it was in the pre slx clip for sure, but i usually had it off with humbuckers and on with singles.
     
  10. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    I totally agree. The amp is WAY better sounding now. I never played it before, now I play it a lot! Its so smooth, it puts a smile on my face every time I plug in. NONE of that sickening Marshall like buzz.
     
  11. Ayan

    Ayan Member

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    Wow, then I am surprised. I will say that, at least in the way it is dialed, the "pre" amp has way too much bass for my tatse. For the record, I have played some of the original Fuchs amps as well as Scott's amp (in its Jan 05 configuration), and while I preferred Scott's amp, the other ones didn't seem to be that bass heavy to me.

    Gil
     
  12. scottl

    scottl Member

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    The mods do not have the pre OD bass trim that the production amps have. At NAMM, the stock amps had their bass trims set half way or so.
     
  13. Ayan

    Ayan Member

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    The thread might be a little confusing then since, as you state, a Fuchs mod doesn't have the same circuit as a production amp.

    As I said before, I can only make comments about the amps "as dialed," and as played by someone else, for that matter. This tends to cloud up "intenet test drives," that's why one should always take these things with a grain of salt.

    For example, on the first two clips (one of which is "pre" and the other "post") there are a few double stops which exhibit a pronounced inter-modulation effect which I don't care for. Now, is the the amp, the settings or the approach? I don't know, but it's the thing that jumps out at me the most, for example.

    Gil
     
  14. scottl

    scottl Member

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    It is Tag's cheapo crap digital recorder. Almost all his clips have wierd artifacts and noise.

    Scott
     
  15. hasserl

    hasserl Member

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    It definately sounds like a neck pup in the pre clip. So you've got a weird setup going on in the first place. But there is also a harmonic complexity in the transients in that clip that is lost in the post clips. The attack of the notes is much tastier in the pre clip. On the faster runs in the pre clip theres a looseness that causes the notes to blur together. They sound much tighter on the post clips, so I don't think it's all from the transformer.

    Very cool though, thanks for the clips.
     
  16. RobertMiller

    RobertMiller Member

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    LOL - a lot of his posts have wierd artifacts and noise too.:D
     
  17. pureoldsound

    pureoldsound Member

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    all I have to day is that the difference is night and day. With the SLX mod the sounds is much articulate and defined, more liquidy....Liked it a lot...Cool...
     
  18. Neil

    Neil Member

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    If I understand Andy Fs recent message correctly a TDS is a regular ODS clean channel added to an SLX clean and OD channel in one box.

    I have a TDS50 and (in my opinion) channel 1 ( the regular ODS clean channel) is fantastic. Great clean sound and a great break up sound with the gain button pushed. Channel 2 (The SLX clean channel) is good but only OK in comparison to channel 1. But then again it is compromised depending on how you set up channel 3. Channel 3 is amazing as has been described before.

    So I would venture that the regular ODS has the best cleans and the SLX the best od.


    Neil
     
  19. scottl

    scottl Member

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    Neil,

    You are totally incorrect in your thinking that Channel 1 is an ODS channel. It is more of a Blackface Fender with a differently tuned tonestack. No master volume too. It has the SLX cabling and the SLX output section mods. It is much more SLX than ODS. The big difference you hear is the lack of a master and the non Dumble tonestack.

    Fwiw, the SLX cleans are an improvement over the old ODS in every way.
     
  20. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Agreed. Fuller, more 3D, and rounder. I use to like my E.Pros cleans more than the Fuchs, now its pretty much a tie. Both are excellent. I bet the TOS is an incredible amp, as I am an admitted Fender clean fanatic. :D
     

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