Princeton Reverb vs. Deluxe Reverb

[duaneallen]

What would most of you say that the basic differences between these two are? I have a Headstong Lil' King (Princeton Reverb) that sounds so sweet at a low volume, but I feel like I need more headroom most of the time when I'm gigging. I play mostly jazz and blues. At low volumes playing jazz, it sounds really sweet, but breaks up a little too early for me when playing chordal stuff when I'm playing a little louder with a group. When I play out playing blues, it can sound great with single coils but humbuckers just bring it to its knees. I had a deluxe years ago, but can't remember the exact nature of it. I remember that it had good headroom. So for what I do; jazz with the need for headroom and blues with a tighter bottom end for humbucker guitars, would a deluxe be better for me? By the way the Lil' King does have the 12" speaker.

 

[GibsonLives]

Yeah, the Deluxe, with its 12" speaker and...I think it's 22 watts(?) should definitely allow for increased headroom as well as handling humbuckers better. Are you looking at BF/SF Fenders, the new reissues, or a clone of some sort? I love the way my SFPR breaks up early, but I play more rockish stuff. I'll also agree that it handles the Gold Lace Sensors in my Strat Plus much more nicely than it does with some humbucker-equiped guitars I've tried through it. If yu like the 10" speaker, but just want more headroom, you might even look into something like the Vibrolux or Super. Hope this helps a little. Good luck.
Steve

 

[duaneallen]

Anyone else?

 

[iim7v7im7]

Consider an Allen Accomplice...more flexible EQ, master volume, and raw control for lower volume overdrive. It is a well designed modern take on what you are looking at. No vibrato though...

 

[embot]

I use to own a silverface Deluxe Reverb and silverface Princeton Reverb. Now I just have the Princeton Reverb. The Deluxe had more headroom but it was also more hi-fi sounding while the Princeton was a little softer/spongier sounding. Obviously, I liked the Princeton better - but that's just me. If you like a louder Princeton try the Carr Rambler.

 

[ianb]

A more efficient speaker could also help. I have read about people who did that, and reported their Princeton could hang with a band much beter.

I personally feel that a Deluxe doesn't give me enough headroom either for jazz, I need 40w to keep it clean.

 

[soopajeanmi]

The Deluxe had more headroom but it was also more hi-fi sounding while the Princeton was a little softer/spongier sounding.

Exactly. There're more differences than just volume between the 2 amps: the cleans of the princeton are spongier and less crisp than the deluxe (I prefer the princeton). The overdriven princeton is grittier and fuzzier than the deluxe (I prefer the deluxe). The tremolo is different too and is just awesome on the princeton (no contest for me here: princeton).

 

[RickC]

I'm sure this has been discussed many times before but I'll ask here anyway (for convenience )

What about putting a 12" in a PR? How does that shift the difference, generally speaking?

/rick

 

[Boogie92801]

The Deluxe is WAY, WAY louder and thus more head room, I know some like the Princeton’s break up; I don’t – I like them clean and don’t think they drive very well. I think the deluxe has a better break up though it come on at different places with different amps depending on tubes, speakers and bias. My current DR breaks up pretty early (after major tweaking) and is very loud. It is a BF’s silver face chassis that has been refurbished, has a Jensen special design (red/gold) speaker and JJs. I still prefer the tweeds though.

One thing I love about Princeton’s is that they make a great acoustic amp. I had an original 1965 Princeton that sounded better than any acoustic amp I have ever tried.

 

[markbosko]

Have you considered an extension speaker with your Lil' King for louder gigs?

 

[teleking36]

I love Princetons. I've played a bunch of SFPRs, BFPRs, SFDRs, a really nice '64 Non Reverb Deluxe, and the Headstrong Lil King, and I still prefer a good Princeton. With a nice set of RCAs, these amps are SO hard to beat for low-medium volume club gigs and recording. When you need more headroom, a speaker swap can definitely help you out. I mean, it's not going to magically turn into a Super Reverb, but it'll help pull you out from behind the drummer a bit.

I have a gem of an early 1968 Princeton Reverb that's got the original blackface guts. I swapped the original speaker for a Weber 10F50T 50 watter and it definitely gave me more volume and tightened up the bass response at high volumes. I could easily gig with the amp in my alt country/indie band. In fact, when I rehearse with the Princeton, I often end up being too loud! Then again, I don't need cleans all the way up the dial, so the scenarios are a bit different.

Swapping baffles for a 12" would definitely give you a bigger sonic footprint too. I've heard modded PRs with the 12" speaker and they hang great in a band mix on stage. The low end is greatly improved as well, if you need it.

 

[JoeB63]

I love reading all these definitively written but incorrect TGP responses. An extension speaker will not give more clean volume/headroom. He already has a 12" speaker, but moving from a 10" speaker to a 12" speaker wouldn't solve his problem (getting significantly louder cleans) anyway.

Unlike a poster above, I have not found a DR to be WAY louder (clean) than a Lil King (though I have found the LK to be quite a bit louder than a vintage PR). Louder yes, way louder, no.

Some suggested a more efficient speaker. That can work. I also have a Headstrong Lil King with the stock 12" Weber (really made by Eminence) speaker. I plugged it into the speaker in my Clark DR clone cab, which is a Cannabis Rex -- it was noticeably louder. So that can help.

Here's my personal experience: My DR clone has more headroom than my Lil King, but as I said above, some of that is due to the speaker difference between the two amps. I gig with the LiL king without a problem -- as long as my amp is mic'd. Without mic'ing the amp, I need more headroom that the LK can deliver. However, the DR doesn't deliver a ton more clean volume than does the LK, so if you have to play big rooms unmic'd and you need to keep it clean, I'd suggest going with a 40 or 50 watt amp (along with an efficient speaker).... or.... if you really want a DR, you can always use the LK and the DR together (there are ways to eliminate ground loop hum). I've done that with great success at some unmic'd gigs.

Oh, and in my opinion a Carr Rambler does not sound like a PR, or a DR.

 

[Kelsey]

I have a SF non-reverb Princeton, which isn't very loud but does stay clean up the dial. I had a Weber 10F150T in it for a long time, but I recently replaced it with a Jensen Neo 10 that I had. The Neo10 is superb with this amp -- tightened up the lows, enhanced the mids just enough, and sweetens the highs while increasing the output a noticeable amount.

 

[62Tele]

Unlike a poster above, I have not found a DR to be WAY louder (clean) than a Lil King (though I have found the LK to be quite a bit louder than a vintage PR). Louder yes, way louder, no.

Some suggested a more efficient speaker. That can work. I also have a Headstrong Lil King with the stock 12" Weber (really made by Eminence) speaker. I plugged it into the speaker in my Clark DR clone cab, which is a Cannabis Rex -- it was noticeably louder. So that can help.

Here's my personal experience: My DR clone has more headroom than my Lil King, but as I said above, some of that is due to the speaker difference between the two amps. I gig with the LiL king without a problem -- as long as my amp is mic'd. Without mic'ing the amp, I need more headroom that the LK can deliver. However, the DR doesn't deliver a ton more clean volume than does the LK, so if you have to play big rooms unmic'd and you need to keep it clean, I'd suggest going with a 40 or 50 watt amp (along with an efficient speaker).... or.... if you really want a DR, you can always use the LK and the DR together (there are ways to eliminate ground loop hum). I've done that with great success at some unmic'd gigs.

This pretty much echoes my experience. I've owned at least three vintage DR's and never found the amps to have WAY more headroom than a PR. They have a little more. The biggest difference I hear is the almost tweed-like characteristics of the Princeton Reverbs which lets them fit a unique niche.

I have a Clark Kanee (roughly a PR clone), currently with a 10, and it's great for lower volume stuff. But for me, the amp is pretty much a practice piece OR requires micing in most rooms. Pretty much what I always found with DR's. If I'm not going to be mic'd, I take my 40 watt Allen head with an EV cab and have had no problem hanging in with a 9 piece. FWIW, the Kanee through the EV cab picks up some considerable headroom.

 

[pedalcr8z]

Oh, and in my opinion a Carr Rambler does not sound like a PR, or a DR.

Agreed. I also found the Rambler to be the epitomy of "hi fi sounding" at least with single coils, even a DRRI has a warmer sound to me

 

[62Tele]

I have a SF non-reverb Princeton, which isn't very loud but does stay clean up the dial. I had a Weber 10F150T in it for a long time, but I recently replaced it with a Jensen Neo 10 that I had. The Neo10 is superb with this amp -- tightened up the lows, enhanced the mids just enough, and sweetens the highs while increasing the output a noticeable amount.

I actually have the neo Tornado 10 in the Kanee and like it quite a bit too. You using the green one?

 

[JoeB63]

Agreed. I also found the Rambler to be the epitomy of "hi fi sounding" at least with single coils, even a DRRI has a warmer sound to me

Yup. I had a Rambler for 3+ years. Great gigging amp (small, relatively light, stays quite clean). Not a lot of character though - relatively to a DR or PR.

 

[Wombat]

You could try the Lil' King S which gives you a litte more power, especially if you like the core Lil' King tones. My Allen Sweet Spot is a little bit more power, and if you need more you can also switch easily to 6L6 instead of the 6V6. Tone differences should be subtle unless you are cranking it, which it sounds like you wouldn't be

 

[Kelsey]

I actually have the neo Tornado 10 in the Kanee and like it quite a bit too. You using the green one?

Yep, the original dark green Neo10/100 that I bought a few years ago.