Pro Tools is making me crazy!

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by rog951, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. Mondoslug

    Mondoslug Member

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    An approved PC also? That's the biggie. Not that that means anything much...just that the PC side and Pro Tools can be kinda nasty.

    wait...IMO.
     
  2. Motterpaul

    Motterpaul Tone is in the Ears

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    You totally forgot the computer hardware compatibility issues - did you do complete device list for your computer and look for non-compatible chip sets?

    Sorry - Posted this before reading the whole thread.

    The thing to remember is that ProTools was designed and the code was written to work on a MAC. Everything they have done for Windows is an adaptation of what was originally done for Mac. Joseph Hanna went on about the advantage of MACs - no doubt this is true. But I will say that once I built my PT-dedicated windows machine it has worked almost flawlessly, so it isn't fair to compare "MACs vs PCs" for ProTools when you are solely referring to "generic models"

    A custom built PC DAW will work as well as a MAC for ProTools LE. But if you have to interface with other programs also made to run on MACs then of course you want a MAC for PT. It is also better for a professional recording situation.

    But for a home user - guess what? PC is far more cost efficient than buying a new MAC, as long as you build the PC to ProTools spec.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  3. Joseph Hanna

    Joseph Hanna Member

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    Hey gearmeup,

    I sense (although I could be wrong) there's still a bit of a disconnect here. The grand majority of Pro Tools incompatibilities are hardware related. You have an almost unfathomable amount of choices with a PC. Video cards, USB and or Firewire buss circuits, drives themselves, video cards, conflicting audio cards choice of ram, endless bios issues which include self ram allocation and even fan speeds that trip problems.

    Those choices may be fun for those that dig tinkering with computers but there of utter and complete nightmares for someone trying to write code with a limited amount of leeway for adjustments so that a fairly closed DAW solution works seamlessly with 10's of thousands of hardware choices.

    Pro Tools on a PC (especially one with a bunch of far-east budget hardware parts) is a pain in the ass. That problem and indeed the ramifications are however clearly spelled out by Digi. My only point is: users who have tons of problems are always angry and frustrated yet always (and maybe it's human nature) look to place blame everywhere but where it needs to be placed.

    Pro Tools is a pain in an unsupported PC, that much I can (and I have the battle scars of a thousand pissed off newbies to prove it) testify to. That by no stretch of reasonable thinking however makes Pro Tools problematic.
     
  4. FFTT

    FFTT Member

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    PoorTools M-Powered 7 was nothing but a headache even on my G5 2.0 DP.

    iLok, the biggest pain in the arse ever invented.

    I bought my software, LEGALLY now leave me TF alone with your authorization crap.
     
  5. billfoma

    billfoma Member

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    So, to all you PT "pros", what Mac whould you suggest to someone who is running a Digi 003R+ with PT LE 8.0.5? And don't tell me to go buy a new Mac. Would an older G5 Power Mac with a dual G5 2.0 Ghz prcessors, 4GB RAM, and a 250GB HD machine run PT LE 8.0.5 and be stable? I also use EZDrummer and NI Abbey Road Modern Drummer with all the BF plugins and some other NI virtual instruments.

    Thanks!
     
  6. Joseph Hanna

    Joseph Hanna Member

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    I dunno FFTT, perhaps you could be (for the benefit of those interested) more specific as to the issues?? Pro Tools was a headache leaves a whole lot open to interpretation.

    I've tech supported every authorization scheme ever made and known to mankind. In the early, early days almost everything (eMagic, Steinberg and Digi) all came with preauthorized dongles. People would spit nails and scream bloody murder because the dongle would inevitably fail sometime on a Friday afternoon leaving the user helpless till someone called back Monday and helpless still until someone could FedEx them something later in the week. Then we went through some years of various and incredibly ridiculous schemes (like challenge and response) which also left users up a creek without a paddle until a tech support rep could straighten the mess out. Then there was the computer id generated code which unfortunately prohibited users from using the product on a second computer. I've had people gets as phone violent as I've ever encountered over computer generated id's and some of the things people said to me, and called me were borderline unthinkable. Of course you might opt for the Wave/Waves Shell authorization scheme......that's a real boondoggle that almost everyone I've ever encountered would rather gouge their eyes out with a stick than play that authorization game. In the end I've NEVER encountered anyone who loves the authorization process, however most understand the necessity.

    I've got zero skin in this game and I don't really care what manufactures do to protect their investments but in the long run I simply do not know of a better protection scheme than iLok. What would be both protective of the code writers and simultaneously easier for you?



    I dunno man can you explain this? Who is not leaving you TF alone? Is someone calling you? I mean you stick the iLok in a USB port and download the authorization to it. The whole process takes 10 seconds, if that. I mean I guess if you're of the mind that software simply should not require authorization, you'd then have a point.

    In the end I do have friends that code plug-in software and I do have friends that have lost their business. Stealing software becomes much bigger (more reality based) an issue when you try to feed your family with the profits generated by software you create, or the lack there in from pirated stuff.

    In all of this I don't see anything (by way of fairly criticizing Pro Tools) other than it's a headache and iLok sucks.
     
  7. FFTT

    FFTT Member

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    Specifics, crashes, freezes, kernel panics, hangups loading other software, failure to recognized other owned software, nothing but a pain in the arse.

    When I say leave me alone, don't force me to use the iLok AT ALL once the software is authorized on my system and if I buy a new computer, don't run me through hoops and considerable expense to pay for AVID's bug fixes.

    The company comes off as greedy and exceptionally paranoid to the point of inconvenience for the user.

    I'm happy now with Logic Studio 9 and have had none of the previous issues.
     
  8. loudboy

    loudboy Member

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    How about none, like Sonar, Soundforge, and pretty much all of the others?

    They all seem to have figured out how to stay in business w/o treating all of their users like potential criminals?
     
  9. FFTT

    FFTT Member

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    If AVID Digidesign is so paranoid about users sharing their software, maybe they
    should license multi-user Band Packs, so everyone working on a project is working with the same program and no one gets hurt.
     
  10. Joseph Hanna

    Joseph Hanna Member

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    I just don't get the mind set. When authorizing software I've never.....never, ever felt like a criminal. It's takes 10 seconds out of my life. It provides me with an online backup should something fail and it allows me to take my plug-ins to neighboring facilities. I'm just not that entitled to think this is some kind of "thing" designed to piss me off. Rationally thinking, there can be only two sides to this coin. Either 1) Digidesign makes you use iLok because they want you to feel like a criminal. Like some sort of calculated move or 2) The market research showed that protecting their software was monetarily a sound investment.

    What other explanation would you proffer?
     
  11. FFTT

    FFTT Member

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    Some people just do better in a restrictive environment I guess.
     
  12. Joseph Hanna

    Joseph Hanna Member

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    Wait...the objection here is the USB port it takes up?? I still don't get it. You plug in an ILok, authorize and then your complaint is ya gotta leave the iLok plugged in?

    Yes of course. That whole new OS and something doesn't work thing. That clearly specific to Digidesign only?!? There hasn't been a DAW software code on this planet that hasn't, at one time or another, had significant difficulties addressing new OS's or new hardware. You're not implying Pro Tools is the only culprit here are you?


    Greedy? Because of an iLok?? I still don't get it. You plug the iLok in. 1/2 a second. You go to their website 15 seconds. You download the authorization to the iLok 15 seconds. You're done. Is that what you're referring to?

    Yeah! At least I can agree with this :)
     
  13. FFTT

    FFTT Member

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    iLok is convenient for someone like a roving producer with ultra high end software, where most of that software
    requires some sort of hardware dongle. In that case, having all your authorizations on one key would be convenient,
    but it is only convenient because those software vendors require a hardware dongle authorization.

    For someone like me in a home studio, I don't need the aggravation.

    Logic Pro Studio 9 is ready to go when I'm ready!


    Don't even get me started on WAVES :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  14. loudboy

    loudboy Member

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    The big issue is what happens when it doesn't work, or someone steals it?

    You've got a room full of clients and you can't work...

    I'm not sure how often this happens, but you hear stories pretty regularly.

    I would imagine that the percentage of users who actually like the iLok would be somewhere around zero? A clear case of the mfg. dictating what the client has to do, as opposed to what they would like.

    It works, due to the near monopoly PT has on production, but it can backfire if a viable competitor shows up who cares more about the end-user.

    I saw this happen in the 80's with computer graphics workstations, and it wasn't pretty for both Dicomed and Genigraphics, both of whom were the only players, and are now distant footnotes.
     
  15. FFTT

    FFTT Member

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    Digi was always about hard selling their own proprietary hardware and the software to
    run it.

    If you wanted in as a plug in vendor, you had to play it their way or be cast out.

    Now the tables have turned and the internal bandwidth of most computers far exceeds
    any need for a severely restrictive 3rd party hardware platform, at least in the home,
    small project studios.

    If you like Protools and Digi and you are comfortable working in that platform, so be it,
    but there's plenty of us very happy in Logic Pro.
     
  16. BrewDrinkRepeat

    BrewDrinkRepeat Member

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    When I first decided to move my home studio into the DAW world it was precisely the independence of the software from the hardware that drove me away from considering ProTools. I wanted the freedom to decide what type of computer I wanted, what interface I wanted, and the ability to upgrade all three (computer, interface and software) independent of each other.

    I chose Logic primarily because at the time it had the nicest GUI on the market (IMO), and I wasn't at all intimidated by the steep learning curve it had at that time (I started with Logic Audio 4) -- if anything, I figured that since the program was so powerful and complex it was very unlikely that I would ever outgrow it... and I haven't.

    I love Logic 9, and it's pretty much smooth sailing on every project I work on from the first tracks to the final mix, and everything inbetween. I'm not even running a particularly powerful machine right now (Mac Book Pro, 2.53 Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM) and I've done some pretty complex arrangements (40+ audio tracks, trimmed of course, with some scattered MIDI) without hitting the limit.
     
  17. stratology

    stratology Member

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    If software uses iLok, don't buy it. Just don't.


    The DAW with the best way to authorize is Logic: you buy it once, it's bound to your AppleID (email address), no serial number, and the license allows you to install it on as many Macs as you like.

    For workflow, I very much prefer MOTU Digital Performer to all other DAWs.
     
  18. FFTT

    FFTT Member

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    The smartest thing I did is when I purchased my MBP and Logic Studio 9,
    I spent an extra $99.00 for Apple One To One in store training.

    I took my MBP, my interface, mic, headphones, everything and they had me up and running in one afternoon with the basics.

    I just renewed again for another year and I can get hands on, in store training not
    only on Logic, but also Final Cut or ANY Apple software program.

    They do personal one to one classes or you join maybe 2-3 others working
    on personal projects.

    This support was invaluable to getting up and running with as little difficulty as possible.
     
  19. Joseph Hanna

    Joseph Hanna Member

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    FFTT,

    I am certified on both Logic and Garage Band. I am still a part time (former full time) "Creative" at the Apple Store of which you praise the the One to One program. I am a former Digi tech support guy with almost five LONG years under my belt. I am also certified in Pro Tools (through the Digi program out in the Daly City facility) as well.

    I am infinitely familiar with Logic Pro as I use it to create audio cues for television and motion picture here in Los Angeles on a daily basis. Currently I have several hundred cues airing on National Television and have had several dozen cues purchased for major motion picture productions.

    I am endlessly familiar with Pro Tools as I work post production as my day gig here in L.A. and I have my nose in it 12 hours a day. I am dependent on that software to perform without glitch so I can get home to my family in the evenings. It works and there's not a person on Earth that can convince me otherwise.....despite having to spend 45 seconds to bow to their superiority and authorize an iLok.

    I am also infinitely familiar with the embryonic versions of eMagic Logic from YEARS ago as I tech supported that when they were a German company. From there I also tech supported Cubase in it's infancy and despite it's under-dog position in the late 90's I dug the vibe and the company.

    I was around for the very first days of Cakewalk as well and where I've never worked for the company (Cakewalk) I knew all the guys who were out there on the cutting edge of promoting what was in 1989 the absolute cutting edge of recording software. To be clear...at that time nobody thought computer software "recording" was even possible.

    I was around for all the miraculous things MOTU did for the industry in the early days. Magic Dave was always a super guy and I hope he still is.

    I've tech supported for eMagic, Logic, Cubase and Pro Tools. I've worked on projects that have been a part of major motion that used virtually every major DAW solution. Somewhere in all of that and in the last 25 years of doing this I believe I acquired some degree of expertise.

    Bitching about Digidesign being some kind of arrogant company bent on being a thorn in the ass of the consumer is, at very best, a child-like mind set.
     
  20. dunara

    dunara Member

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    Maybe so Joseph, but to a significant number of people, that's the way that Avid/Digidesign come across, and have done since the 90s. That their strategy has been successful, there is no doubt. That strategy involved an element of corporate arrogance. Perhaps it needed to.....
     

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