PRRI with Ragin Cajun NOT sweeter than Jensen

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by White Horse, Dec 26, 2009.

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  1. Dec 26, 2009 #1
    White Horse

    White Horse Member

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    Just replaced my stock Jensen speaker in my Princeton reissue with a Ragin Cajun. I researched this swap extensively. I was hoping to preserve tone but add a bit of headroom and maximum volume. Most chatter on the net suggested the RC was the ideal speaker. I now disagree. Here's why:

    1) the stock Jensen is extremely bright, but properly dialed sounds gorgeous. The RC either sounds harshly bright and sterile or muddy. I can't dial in a lush sound no matter how I tweak the amp and guitar.

    2) Reverb response with the Jensen is near perfect -- lush, balanced, musical. The RC seems to kill reverb -- you have to goose the knob -- and doesn't sound musical.

    3) Active pickups have become harsh. My Godin Velocity has active pickups that with the Jensen sound bright and layered. The RC sounds harsh and strangely distorted with a strongly strummed low e.

    The needed increase in headroom and volume IS there, but I've lost that Fender clean vintage tone that made me want play for hours. My amp is now a high volume sound maker rather than an instrument.

    Thoughts?
     
    White Horse, Dec 26, 2009
    White Horse, Dec 26, 2009
    #1
  2. Dec 26, 2009 #2
    Billm

    Billm Member

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    Not sure where you've seen positive press on the Ragin Cajun in a PRRI, but most of the stuff I've read (and written) has advised against it. The RC is an in-your-face, midrangey speaker. If you like hard edges and rock grind, it's a good choice.

    The stock Jensen C10R is, as you say, much sweeter and is grossly underrated by people who should dig further before blaming it for typical PRRI shortcomings like flubby bass.

    I've set up a number of PRRIs with JJ 6V6s and the TO20 output transformer, The combination lends a wonderful clarity throughout the audio range and extends the bottom end with big, round notes. It's hard to believe they're coming from an open-backed 10-inch speaker. The TO20 removes the grindy, pushed-Princeton sound that you get from the stock, undersized OT. So if that's what you like, leave it stock. But if you like big cleans and a smooth transition to breakup without the piercing highs you can get with a DRRI, the JJ/TO20 combo is awesome.
     
    Billm, Dec 26, 2009
    Billm, Dec 26, 2009
    #2
  3. Dec 26, 2009 #3
    CitizenCain

    CitizenCain Member

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    Bill, I assume the tube/OT combo you describe was used with the stock Jensen speaker?

    I agree on the Ragin' Cajun. While it is a powerful 10" speaker that can take and give a lot, it is not a sparkly, vintage type sound at all. I've had a couple Jensen RIs in different amps and they seem to work just fine, thank you. If you fell you must change the speaker, the Emi Legend 105 is a better choice for more classic Fender sound.
     
    CitizenCain, Dec 26, 2009
    CitizenCain, Dec 26, 2009
    #3
  4. Dec 26, 2009 #4
    Billm

    Billm Member

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    Right. One of my customers tried pretty hard to fall in love with a Weber 10A150, but went back to the Jensen. I don't like most of the Recoton-built Jensens, but they seem to have gotten everything right with the C10R.
     
    Billm, Dec 26, 2009
    Billm, Dec 26, 2009
    #4
  5. Dec 28, 2009 #5
    theraygun

    theraygun Member

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    I greatly prefer the Copperhead to the Cajun especially in Princetons.
     
    theraygun, Dec 28, 2009
    theraygun, Dec 28, 2009
    #5
  6. Dec 28, 2009 #6
    Joe L

    Joe L Supporting Member

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    I just recently purchased a PRRI ( without the dreaded rattle) and the stock Jensen sounds great with the upgraded O/T and JJ6Vs. I installed the JJ5V6s and biased and then took a ride out to Billm who installed the new T020. The improvement is very noticable with single coils and buckers and I agree with Bill that this Jensen is perfect for the PRRI. By contrast I had to replace the Jensen in my BJ NOS with a C-Rex even after Billm did mods to my amp including the the new T020 O/T. Both amps sound great with nice defined tight bottom and crisp highs. O/T makes a big difference.
     
    Joe L, Dec 28, 2009
    Joe L, Dec 28, 2009
    #6
  7. Dec 28, 2009 #7
    frankiestarr

    frankiestarr Supporting Member

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    Did you ever hear the Eminence Red Fang Alnico 10? It is fuller and not as harsh in the high end. Great speaker....
     
    frankiestarr, Dec 28, 2009
    frankiestarr, Dec 28, 2009
    #7
  8. Dec 28, 2009 #8
    blackba

    blackba Supporting Member

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    It would be interesting to see what your customer would have thought if we went with a Weber that was closed to the C10R, not sure if that would be a 10F150 or a 10F125.
     
    blackba, Dec 28, 2009
    blackba, Dec 28, 2009
    #8
  9. Dec 28, 2009 #9
    Jeffj

    Jeffj Supporting Member

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    I have the Rajin Cajun in all my Princeton amps (3) & personally love it. To me it is big & fat sounding with more headroom. I agree that you lose some of that Fender sparkle and\or chime. However, I would not call the speaker harsh at all.
     
    Jeffj, Dec 28, 2009
    Jeffj, Dec 28, 2009
    #9
  10. Dec 28, 2009 #10
    Rotten

    Rotten Silver Supporting Member

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    Copperhead would seem to be a better choice. I have a 2x10 and use a Ragin' Cajun and a Copperhead together; the RC for meat and the Copperhead for sparkle.
     
    Rotten, Dec 28, 2009
    Rotten, Dec 28, 2009
    #10
  11. Dec 28, 2009 #11
    calieng

    calieng Member

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    I've got a P10R Jensen in a used PRRI that I recently bought. I was planning on replacing the speaker before I got it but it actually sounds really good. The speaker was already well broken in so I am not sure if I would have liked it had I put a brand new P10R speaker in as they can sound a little harsh.

    The biggest improvement I got was putting in a Mercury Magnetics output transformer. I did not have an OT for the Princeton in stock but I did have a spare MM Tweed Deluxe OT so I put that in (just a little beefier than the Princeton OT). It sounds so much more articulate now and the bass response is greatly improved.
     
    calieng, Dec 28, 2009
    calieng, Dec 28, 2009
    #11
  12. Dec 28, 2009 #12
    mikelaw

    mikelaw Member

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    these amps sound best with alnicos
     
    mikelaw, Dec 28, 2009
    mikelaw, Dec 28, 2009
    #12
  13. Dec 28, 2009 #13
    In Tune

    In Tune Member

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    who make the TO2O OT ? and where do I get one.?
     
    In Tune, Dec 28, 2009
    In Tune, Dec 28, 2009
    #13
  14. Dec 28, 2009 #14
    CitizenCain

    CitizenCain Member

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    Allen Amps, http://www.allenamps.com

    They're $49, I'd love to grab a SCXD and pop one of these in there for a try out.
     
    CitizenCain, Dec 28, 2009
    CitizenCain, Dec 28, 2009
    #14
  15. Dec 28, 2009 #15
    White Horse

    White Horse Member

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    Argh! Argh!! ARGH!

    I feel I read every bit of commentary and review out there before I bought the Ragin Cajun. Everywhere I went, it was the predominate speaker mentioned when talking a swap for a PRRI. I considered the Red Fang, I considered others, I spoke to an amp tech, and everything still added up to the Ragin Cajun being the best option. There's several YouTube videos of people reviewing them, and every time the response is something like, "It really changed the amp for the better."

    ARGH!

    I'm tempted to put the sweet Jensen back in, but its limitations still exist -- the exact limitations that the Ragin Cajun DOES rectify: it's not that loud, which is hurting me gigging beside a DRRI (he's at 5 on the volume pot, I'm at 8.5), and it's got very little headroom and tends to break up into not-always-sweet distortion.

    Is there a way to make the Ragin Cajun have a bit more sparkle? Would a tube swap or some other relatively easy mod bring out more character in it? Or am I screwed?
     
    White Horse, Dec 28, 2009
    White Horse, Dec 28, 2009
    #15
  16. Dec 28, 2009 #16
    Bikedude

    Bikedude Gold Supporting Member

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    Read Billm's responses above, again!
     
    Bikedude, Dec 28, 2009
    Bikedude, Dec 28, 2009
    #16
  17. Dec 28, 2009 #17
    White Horse

    White Horse Member

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    Uh, his response is basically saying go back to the Jensen. Unfortunately, because it's so inefficient, for gigging with one of the bands I play with it isn't going to work. So, what can I do to bring out some sparkle in the Ragin Cajun? Would the JJ tubes help?
     
    White Horse, Dec 28, 2009
    White Horse, Dec 28, 2009
    #17
  18. Dec 28, 2009 #18
    calieng

    calieng Member

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    Have you considered plugging into a 1-12" speaker cabinet when you need the extra volume? Maybe with an 8ohm Emi Red White and Blues speaker in it. 101dB sensitivity of the RW&B should give you a little more volume than the 10" internal speaker.
     
    calieng, Dec 28, 2009
    calieng, Dec 28, 2009
    #18
  19. Dec 28, 2009 #19
    White Horse

    White Horse Member

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    I considered an extension cabinet but opted to go with the Ragin Cajun swap. It clocks in at 99 dB (if I'm not mistaken) and doesn't require the extra luggage. I've got money invested in this now, so I kind of want to make it work. Is there a way to get some sparkle into that speaker? Would one type of tube, say, bring more of that vintage sound back into my PRRI with the RC?
     
    White Horse, Dec 28, 2009
    White Horse, Dec 28, 2009
    #19
  20. Dec 28, 2009 #20
    jezzbo

    jezzbo Member

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    Play some time through the RC.
    It needs to break in.
    (maybe you like it when it gets a bit sweeter)

    I own a super champ XD (I know, a different amp) that has nice fender "blackface" cleans. but the stock speaker was crap.
    I replaced it with an emi Legend 105. although everybody said to use a ragin Cajun. the 105 is indeed way more fender sounding (at least to me).
    (and it doesn't fart at higher volume like the original speaker does)

    Just remember to break in that RC. (most speakers get better sounding, les harsh, when they worked some time)

    I hope this helps a bit.

    Greetings from Belgium

    Jesse
     
    jezzbo, Dec 28, 2009
    jezzbo, Dec 28, 2009
    #20
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