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Pull me out of this rut!

ericprsse

Member
Messages
251
Hey guys,

I've been playing a ton lately, but feel like my advancement is very unidirectional. I want to expand my abilities, and advance my jazz and fusion playing. I suppose I should be more specific; when I say fusion, I mean clean, non-shreddy fusion. I know the theory, but I seem to be lacking in ideas. I think this is also because I don't listen to enough of this style. Please recommend exercises, players to listen to, or anything else that may help. Also, if you guys know of any good books on this material, please share!

Thanks!
 

Starquasi

Member
Messages
207
You've pointed out a big thing in the lack of listening. Transcribe, transcribe, transcribe! The best way to learn a language is to hear it being spoken and then copying it. Same thing with learning lines and gaining ideas.

One book that instantly came to mine was the classic "Patterns for Jazz". The ideas at the beginning of the book are just as relevant as the ideas at the end. It's all about application. Two other great books are from Jerry Bergonzi's "Inside Improvisation" series. Vol 1. Melodic Structures and Vol 2. Pentatonics are great places to start.

Oh and Jamey Aebersold's Vol 84 Dominant workout. Work out some bebop lines then use your theory to transpose them up a tritone. Then mix up the two lines. Now that's fusion!
 

ericprsse

Member
Messages
251
would you recommend always doing full transcriptions? I often learn improvisations and then analyze how they work over the harmonies, but rarely put anything onto paper.
 

Gene

Member
Messages
1,624
You don't have to write it down but I recommend it if you have any interest in composition. Plus, I wanted to document all the fun I was having transcribing 1 solo/tune a week for 5 years straight. And don't just transcribe solos. I transcribed anything I heard that I liked. Bass lines, classical music, big band arrangements on tunes, etc.

If you can write down what you hear in your inner musical ear, it is not much harder to play what you hear within technical limitation from a physical point of view on your isntrument.
 

Swain

Member
Messages
2,407
Here's some good stuff:

A good Intro:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/505889&highlight=Blues+With+Brains

Another good Intro:

http://truefire.com/335blues/LC335blues.html

Another great Intro:

http://www.amazon.com/Don-Mock-Blue..._oe_9_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237914353&sr=1-9

Taking it out:

http://www.amazon.com/Scott-Henders...bs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1237914613&sr=8-4

More options:

http://www.amazon.com/Carl-Verheyye...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1237914757&sr=1-1

And if you dig that:


http://www.amazon.com/Mel-Bays-Improvising-without-Scales/dp/0786646993/ref=pd_bxgy_m_text_b


I think all of the stuff from Robben Ford is really good too. He's got quite a few great Instructional DVDs, Books, etc. His "Art Of Blues Rhythm" is excellent. And he's got another new one on Soloing due out soon.
 

gennation

Member
Messages
7,573
The "On Topic" section of my lesson site was created specifically for players who already play but are looking for some 'next level' info...aka players in a rut looking for some new inspiration or new views.

You'll find the section here: http://lessons.mikedodge.com

When using the lessons always read the Introductions and Essential Information sections as they'll explain the reason for the lesson and the give you either tools or objectives for using the lessons. All the lessons have audio, video, tab, notation, diagrams, explanations, etc... as needed.

You'll find info for many different styles of music there that will definitely help you all the way around.
 

Jon

Member
Messages
1,571
This is one of those 'back-to-front learning' situations for me.

Why do you want to expand your playing in a fusion/jazz direction when you're not even listing to much of this style of music? Is it because you feel that this is what 'better' musicians play - that other guitarists will hold you in higher esteem if you can play fusion? - I don't mean that to sound overly critical as I think it's something that all of us suffer from to some extent at various points in our playing. You have to have some kind of ego to want to play in the first place and especially to want to get up on stage and make music in front of other people, but it's question of having a balance - I think you need to really examine your motives in deciding what to learn and study. IMO it should be because it's what you love listening to and you want to be able to make that kind of music yourself - you should let your listening habits dictate your musical direction, not vice-versa (definitely look for new music and artists to listen to but do this for your own listening pleasure, not because you feel in some way that you ought to). You need to plug back into that joy you felt when you first started playing and got certain things under your fingers - look inwards and work hard at playing what you love as well as you possibly can (and that includes simpler stuff in the styles that you already love and play, as well as new discoveries) for your own benefit and you should see great results. I also feel that your main learning tool should be picking up things from records rather than buying tuition/transcription books and DVDs - again it's letting your ear guide you.
 
Last edited:

Gene

Member
Messages
1,624
I also feel that your main learning tool should be picking up things from records rather than buying tuition/transcription books and DVDs - again it's letting your ear guide you.
Enuff said... If you can't hear it, you can't play it.
 

ericprsse

Member
Messages
251
Jon, I do agree with what you said. That said, I think learning more jazz/fusion, will really open doors to me when I want to be a little more creative in other genres. I really love when blues or rock guys incorporate some jazz lines or motives into their playing, but just learning the one lick per album that they put out doesn't help much. I have already studied jazz, and I definitely found it improved my playing tremendously, the problem now is that I've grown a bit tired of listenning to the old stuff, like wes, or grant green, and would like something new. I've been trying to listen and absorb some stuff from newer guys, like kurt rosenwinkel, but find it difficult as the notes go by so quickly! I do agree that players shouldn't feel forced to study different genres, but like I said, I DO like jazz, I'm just in a bit of a listenning/playing rut. I think a new player to study, or teacher could help spark things up.
 

Swain

Member
Messages
2,407
Yeah, an Instructor would be a GREAT idea! Or, if you can find a more experienced player to let you sit in sometimes......Just like the old days.


Ever check out Scott Henderson? Carl Verheyen?

Those guys may be closer to what you're talking about.
 
Messages
2,874
Rather than looking for new guitar players to listen to how about horn or piano players. I'm sure you realize that if you're focusing only on guitar players you are missing out on a boatload of great musicians.
 

gennation

Member
Messages
7,573
absolutely!
If you're interested, I have Miles Davis' solo to So What transcribed for guitar at my lesson site. It's definitely a great solo to learn. It's in the "Transcriptions" section.

I even transcribe Bill Evans quirky little intro to the solo for guitar. It's a fun one.
 

skyn

Active Member
Messages
93
I was stuck in a similar rut however more with blues then fusion, and I found coping licks from the greats to be of much help!
 

Jon

Member
Messages
1,571
Jon, I do agree with what you said. That said, I think learning more jazz/fusion, will really open doors to me when I want to be a little more creative in other genres. I really love when blues or rock guys incorporate some jazz lines or motives into their playing, but just learning the one lick per album that they put out doesn't help much. I have already studied jazz, and I definitely found it improved my playing tremendously, the problem now is that I've grown a bit tired of listenning to the old stuff, like wes, or grant green, and would like something new. I've been trying to listen and absorb some stuff from newer guys, like kurt rosenwinkel, but find it difficult as the notes go by so quickly! I do agree that players shouldn't feel forced to study different genres, but like I said, I DO like jazz, I'm just in a bit of a listenning/playing rut. I think a new player to study, or teacher could help spark things up.
You could try Jimmy Herring's new album, 'Lifeboat' - lots of great sounds on there.
 

fast1

Member
Messages
195
Here's some good stuff:

A good Intro:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/505889&highlight=Blues+With+Brains

Another good Intro:

http://truefire.com/335blues/LC335blues.html

Another great Intro:

http://www.amazon.com/Don-Mock-Blue..._oe_9_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237914353&sr=1-9

Taking it out:

http://www.amazon.com/Scott-Henders...bs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1237914613&sr=8-4

More options:

http://www.amazon.com/Carl-Verheyye...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1237914757&sr=1-1

And if you dig that:


http://www.amazon.com/Mel-Bays-Improvising-without-Scales/dp/0786646993/ref=pd_bxgy_m_text_b


I think all of the stuff from Robben Ford is really good too. He's got quite a few great Instructional DVDs, Books, etc. His "Art Of Blues Rhythm" is excellent. And he's got another new one on Soloing due out soon.
thanks for taking the time to post this mate, quite useful for me
 




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